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- AndrewCarter August 2015
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H-BOMBER, TheDiva, RIO, hash likes this post.
Absolute bitch of a man.
thefalcon, RIO, kane, Darkhorse likes this post.
bookielover, Carlosa, Nevershowsurprise, hash dislikes this post.
Is it racist? I think so. He is very outspoken on his culture, and the underlying fact is I think that gets to people. I agree with the article with O'loughlin on AFL.com and what he says.
I thought as a country we were better than what is being showed by crowds. It is clear we are not, at all. The fact that the guy is probably not going to play because of this is really sad. Just imagine if you went to work and every time you did something you were put down or publicly humiliated. I reckon you would change pretty quickly. And just because he is a public figure doesn't mean he has to take it from self important joe average.
carey, Aquanita, bookielover, tony, oldhendo, Carlosa, JayJay, TheFunkster likes this post.
Cmon mate thats a cop out.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion though, and thats the centre of the discussion
:-?
it's not the same as booing a player that once played for your club but went elsewhere.
it's not the same as booing the umpires because they penalised your team, rightfully or wrongly.
with goodes it's because he was made australian of the year, or because of that incident with the young lass, or both.
and it is designed to inflict hurt on him, so it's irrelevant if it's racist or not in my opinion.
it's simply moronic behaviour by halfwits
bookielover, TheFunkster likes this post.
In my opinion the booing is race related, is disgraceful, and says more about the intellect of those participating in it than anything else. I'm sorry, but anyone who condones this behaviour, or participates in it, is revealing their true beliefs as far as racism goes,.
As Australians we have come a long way in accepting Indigenous Australians into society and sports. The only thing we don't like is if they have an opinion that differs from that of the mainstream uneducated white Australian opinion.
You don't see Herritier Lamumba (Harry O'Brien) being booed when he plays, yet his outspoken ideals are on the same level as those of Goodes. The reason? Because he is not an Indigenous Australian.
To Lewis Jetta, I take my hat off to you young man. To stick up for your mate, in an adverse situation, on enemy territory, against a vocal and hostile crowd, what you did was amazing. The character shown in your display of support, speaks volumes as to your inner strength. I only hope my children are instilled with the same inner strength that you showed on Sunday, should their mates ever be put in a similar situation. Outstanding display of courage, respect and support.
Anyone who wants to get into a slinging match over this with me, don't bother, as I don't waste my time arguing with idiots, and I won't take the bait.
Dismount soapbox.
carey, Aquanita, Carlosa, bookielover, tony, oldhendo, JayJay, Nevershowsurprise likes this post.
He is an outspoken member of his people and as far as I am concerned is entitled to express his opinion, as long as he does not encourage violence, or is himself, racist in his remarks.
I had an issue with his so called "war cry" or "war dance" that he first introduced in the Carlton Swans match at the SCG.
The visiting Carlton supporters and cheer squad had NOT booed Goodes at all. He then kicks a goal and does the dance in front of the Carlton Cheer Squad and supporters, which then led to them booing him.
It was Indigenous round, and I did not have a problem as such with his war dance.
My issue was one of when he did it, how he did it, and where he did it..
The war dance does not have a long history in Aboriginal Culture.
It was apparently introduced by an under 18 Indigenous Football Team a few years ago. That in itself, does not, nor should it disqualify, Goodes from doing it.
My point is, that no one, in the "white" population, nor, dare I say it, many in the Aboriginal population, would have ever seen that dance.
And here is Goodes, scoring a goal, and dancing towards the Carlton Supporters and finishing his dance by throwing a spear at them.
In my opinion, and I expressed it elsewhere at the time, here are two possibilities, either one of which I believe would have been far preferable to that which actually occurred.
Adam should have approached his club and told them that in honour of the round, he and Jetta the two Indigenous players in the Swans team, would like to do the war dance in the same way as it was done by the under 18 team, as a welcome to the Carlton team.
He should have requested his President or CEO, if they agreed with his request, contact Carlton, and see if their players would line up opposite the Swans players, yes, much like opposition teams do when the New Zealanders perform their Haka, and he and Jetta would perform the dance.
As an even better gesture, Goodes should have then further requested his President or CEO, to ask Carlton, if their two Indigenous players who played that day, Yarran and Walker, would then like to do the dance in front of the Swans players.
The ground announcer would have announced what was going to happen, every supporter on the ground would have expected it, known about it, and understood it was a form of honour to the opposition, and there would not have been a word said, especially if both teams Indigenous players had taken part.
Another suggestion that I thought of was, that if it was felt that idea was impractical, then have the four Indigenous players, Goodes Jetta, Yarran and Walker, go together, firstly to the Swans supporters, and do the dance, then to the other end of the ground to the Blues supporters, and do the dance. The ground announcer would have explained the significance of what was about to happen prior to them doing it.
THAT would have been not only a true show of solidarity among the Indigenous players, but would have, unless you were a true racist, been seen to be a really nice gesture on what was a special round of football celebrating Indigenous footballers in particular, and Indigenous Australians in general.
Unfortunately, Adam probably felt a sense of entitlement. It was Indigenous round, and why shouldn't he perform the dance anytime he wanted to. And if it happened to be in front of the opposition's supporters after scoring a goal, so be it.
To me, that was and for the most part is Adam Goodes' problem.
He gave absolutely no consideration at all as to the effect that his actions may have had on the Carlton Supporters before whom he performed the dance.
He was Adam Goodes, Australian of the Year, dual Brownlow medalist, champion of Indigenous peoples rights, and he was going to do the dance where and when he decided to it, and nothing was going to stop him.
There is an old saying. "With great power, comes great responsibility".
Adam Goodes' actions that day, displayed a total lack of responsibility on his part.
Had he been a TRUE leader, he would have informed his employers, consulted with them, suggested ways that the Carlton Indigenous players could have joined in, and ensured that if it went ahead, the football public at the ground and at home would have been well informed beforehand.
Had he done that, Adam Goodes would have, or at the very least, should have, been applauded.
He may well have regained any lost respect that for whatever reason, the football public have for him.
Some leaders can handle pressure and think before they speak and do, others cannot.
Adam Goodes is a man who is looked up to and almost deified by his Community. At the very least, he has an obligation to them, to be a leader in every respect.
For a long time, Goodes had that respect from all sections of the Community. Football supporters have said that it is not racism, but rather Goodes' actions on the footy field which have lead to them booing him.
Whatever the case may be, had Adam Goodes conducted himself in a professional manner, as an Indigenous leader should on that day in Indigenous round, I am sure that the footballing public would have been far more forgiving of his perceived on field indiscretions, than they are now.
What is far more important, is that had Adam conducted himself with the dignity that Indigenous round deserves, and I draw your attention to the magnificent pre-game ceremony at the Essendon Richmond match, then not only would he have enhanced his reputation, but set a wonderful example for all Indigenous players in particular, and all footballers in general to follow.
kane likes this post.
carey, Nevershowsurprise dislikes this post.
Carlosa, dungy, Nevershowsurprise, hash likes this post.
try to steer them away from their foul behaviour and stealing, and bashings of elderly folk and their foul language abuse to white people.
I recently saw behaviour at the dan murphy store at the hyde park that I have never witnessed before...foul language, spitting, bottles thrown...there were 6 of them 3 men, 2 women and a teenager.
kane likes this post.
BC4E dislikes this post.
I've always regarded Goodes as an out and out champion and at times it was like watching poetry in motion as he tore us to pieces but I've really lost a lot of respect for him over the past couple of years with the way he's behaved on the field.
I treat anyone as I would like to be treated myself until they do the wrong thing by me and no I didn't boo him and for that matter neither did the majority of the crowd, a fact that has been conveniently overlooked.
I wasn't happy with his hit on Ellis with just over four minutes left in the first quarter which was very average to say the least and the booing clearly intensified and continued after that and there have been a fair few of those instances from him over the last couple of years.
That particular instance occurred virtually right in front of where we sit and it looked extremely crude to say the least and that's giving him the benefit of a very grave doubt as he ran full pace and launched himself square into ellis' back cannoning into him full force with his knee when nowhere near the ball.
Surprise, surprise it wasn't even looked at and how the AFL media can get on their high horse in regard to a vocal minority of moronic Eagles fans booing of Goodes and then impugn our entire supporter base is mystifying especially when the big punch up between Collingwood and Bulldogs fans, a far more disturbing issue, has been basically glossed over.
Again you can just about guarantee what the common denominator was between those two incidents, alcohol.
When is someone in the Eastern States AFL media going to have the balls to confront the single biggest issue influencing poor crowd behaviour at AFL games, the consumption of alcohol???
I guess it will be a cold day in hell before that happens, far too much money and influence involved.
SPUDLEY likes this post.
I said that I don't have any particular problem with Goodes, and I mean it.
Perhaps I should have added, "either as a Human being or as a footballer."
The colour of Goodes' skin, is totally irrelevant to me, and always has been.
It appears that I'm not as observant as others, who claim they boo him because he's been milking free kicks for years, because I have never picked up on his supposed ducking his head to get free kicks that other supporters complain about.
I have, however, picked up on it where Geelong's Selwood is concerned. As far as i am aware, he is not Indigenous.
The whole point of my post, which you obviously missed, was his particular conduct on indigenous round toward the Carlton Supporters, whom, I had it on very good authority, were instructed by the powers that be at the club, to under no circumstances whatsoever boo Goodes.
And they didn't boo him for almost two quarters.
Then he goes and does a dance which ends with him "throwing" a spear at them, and that set them off. So much so, that one of the cheer squad was ejected from the ground, and rightly so.
Everyone, Carey, irrespective of their race colour or creed, or their position in society, has a responsibility to conduct themselves in a respectful decent manner.
Those who don't, usually, but not always, end up behind bars.
I have not criticised Goodes for his actions on that day, because of his colour or race, or religion.
I have criticised him on the basis that he is a leader of his people, a champion of his people, and as Australian of the year, a man who I am sure most people tend to forget, represents ALL of us regardless of our colour, race, creed, religion or ethnicity.
He didn't do it on that day.
And that, was my point.
kane likes this post.
I find that many of the issues affecting indigenous Australia are ones that have been introduced. Just my opinion and experience, no picking of fights here.
I have absolutely no doubt, that the booing of Adam did NOT start out as a racial issue, nor is it an issue of his race for the vast majority of supporters.
If it was an issue of Goodes' race, then please explain to me, why the the other 70 Indigenous players are not booed.
As a Carlton supporter, the only time that I can recall Chris Yarran being booed, was when he punched Essendon's Paul Chapman, for which he copped three weeks. And he deserved to be booed for his unsportsmanlike disgraceful behaviour. I can tell you that he was severely punished internally by the club.
Hawthorn have got 5 Indigenous players. They are not booed.
Goodes, is the only player of Aboriginal descent, who is constantly booed.
I have read the reasons that are given. Staging for frees, crude tackles, whinging to the umpire,not being charged when he should have been and so on.
I have no doubt, that racists in the crowd, who have learnt that if they were to yell out crude epithets at Indigenous players, would be ejected and therefore hold their collective tongues, are now joining in with great glee because they can feel the shackles are off where booing and calling out at Goodes is concerned.
And that is the really sad part about all this.
Goodes does not, in my opinion, deserve the ongoing treatment that he has been receiving, and I don't know how we would feel, if it was our son playing out there being booed every time he got the ball.
Perhaps Goodes can take a leaf out of Chris Judds' book.
Ever since that chicken wing tackle on North Melbourne's Zeibel a few years ago, Chris Judd was booed by every other teams supporters, every time he went near the ball, and heavily booed for 6 years by West Coast supporters.
I never heard him once complain about it.
Rather he ignored it, and went about his business.
Maybe Adam Goodes would do well to follow Judds' example.
kane likes this post.
For anyone who hasn't seen it there's a picture of Goodes in the top right hand corner promoting a story on page 3 and directly underneath it the headline BUILD A BRIDGE which is actually referring to the story underneath it about a new Fremantle overpass being the key to the growth of Fremantle port.
The positioning however of that particular headline doesn't appear to have been well thought out however.
I nearly **** missed myself laughing when I saw that one, think somebody's going to cop a bit of flak over that.
jum likes this post.
jum likes this post.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/adam-goodes-lecture-lets-us-all-down/story-fni0ffxg-1226846319656
thefalcon likes this post.
He has always been a sniper and staged for frees on the ground, but he has not always been booed. It is a recent phenomenon and is in line with his vocal stance on racial issues in this country.
I accept there is a massive element now of people being sheep, or people genuinely thinking it is funny, but the real core of the booing chorus has massive racist undertones.
Re alcohol - do we really think that 14yo girl wouldn't have racially abused Goodes in the terrible manner she did if booze wasn't being served? Do we really think the Eagles supporter who called Goodes an ape on the weekend and then threatened to beat up the bloke that called him out for it wouldn't have done so without booze? It is BS, and I am sick of people using booze as an excuse for shocking human behaviour! Remove the booze and this would still be happening.
dungy, BC4E likes this post.
they get more benefits than we could ever imagine.....
kane likes this post.
BC4E dislikes this post.
I disagree with most of you except Darkshines, who said, you have no idea why the bloke next to you is booing.... so you cannot comment on whether he/she is racist or not. He might be a racist, but you might not.
So, those who say the booing was racist... you are WRONG because you dont know!
Can't blame Derm at all what Rebecca Wilson said and implied about him was a disgrace.
Seriously what a joke typical of what's going on within some elements of the ES media at the moment, rather than just getting on your moral high horse how about actually doing something constructive rather than just big noting yourself and being deliberately divisive.
How about getting to the root cause of what is causing a lot of these problems with crowd behaviour and has continually done so over the years, the consumption of alcohol at sporting events.
Again none of the controlling bodies of sport or the media dare go there because of the vast influence and money involved.
You stop serving alcohol and don't allow intoxicated people into sporting arenas and you immediately eliminate the overwhelming majority of these crowd behavioural issues.
Where's the call from the AFL players association, the AFL and the media in regard to that rather than condemning all and sundry and trying to inflict the thought police upon everyone, rightly or wrongly you're never going to be able to control what people think but you could stop virtually overnight the majority of these behavioural issues by turning off the booze at these events but as we all well know it will be cold day in hell before that happens.
Surely it's simple commonsense that someone who is sober is far more likely to think twice about their actions and the consequences stemming from it than someone who is half cut.
notapunta likes this post.
thefalcon likes this post.
where is darkshines post on this thread?
A lot of the constant booing was directed towards that prima donna of an umpire Chamberlain as well, that not's an excuse that 's a fact.
And yes I have no doubt that alcohol played a part with the 13 year-old girl making those comments as no doubt she heard others possibly her parents and their relatives and or friends make similar comments in the past either at home or at other games when their inhibitions were lowered by the consumption or excessive consumption of alcohol and that's something called learned behaviour.
oldhendo, Darkhorse likes this post.
However, when it became apparent that he was seriously injured, you could feel the mood change of even the most ardent fan. After all, it is just a game, and his injury was incredibly serious.
Now I don't care for the motivation behind some fans booing anyone on the pitch, because it is not a love in. It is a football game, and until someone gets hurt, it's just some sounds made on the wind that you can interpret anyway which way you want. Now Adam Goodes wants to think that because someone farts upwind, that it is directed at him. Well he can think that.
But I have read that on plenty of occasions, when racist comments have been made, plenty of people have jumped in and berated the offender. Nobody wants racism involved in any walk of life in Australia.
What I struggle with though is the interpretation that booing one player, who happens to be the opposition Captain, everytime he gets the ball, that it is anything other than what the sport is supposed to be like. It isn't because of his skin colour, it is because of the colour of his jersey. Turning it into something else after the game, or worse still, inciting the crowd by performing some sort of a dance that hasn't been seen that much, so that it looks like any other violent gesture, and thinking that it is cultural is farcical. If you wanted to celebrate your culture, do it pre game or after the match.
Purely as an example, if two Muslims objected to the booing every time they got their hands on the ball, and after scoring a goal they then turned to the crowd and made a slitting of a throat in an ISIS beheading, would there be any level of support of their culture being discussed and supported by the AFL and sections of the media looking to sell newspapers ?
I bet my left testicle that they would be fined or counselled, and escorted off the oval, because the crowd would be coming over the fence in the current climate. I'm afraid this level of bullshit surrounding the game this week just takes the game into the gutter and I blame all partied involved for feeding it oxygen. It's just a game.