PERTH BOOKIES......................... A TRIP DOWN MEMORY LANEWest Australian Racing

Rex

I can remember back in around 1959 when I was at high school in Belmont and a friend and myself would wag school on a Wednesday and jump on a Mclartys float to go to the midweek country meeting and pool our 2 shillings (20 cents) to have a bet. this particular day the meeting was at York and when we arrived there were more kids than horses on the float and we had to lead a horse in to get on coarse. The late Ray Oliver saw our plight so said that if we helped him carry in his gear he would get us in. We jumped at the opportunity and after delivering his gear to the jocks room he told us that he would win on a horse that I can't remember it's name but that doesn't matter. We were pleased for the tip and decided to have 2 shillings straight out on it and keep the other 2 shilling in case it got beat. Me being the oldest looking of us 2 went to Allan Wells and had our 2 shillings on at 5-1. The horse won and we reckoned we were millionaires until I went to collect and Allan tore up the ticket informing me I was to young to bet. Was I pissed off. As it turned out in later years Allan started a fruit and veggie shop in Great Easter Hwy in Rivervale so I used to go in and knock off some apples etc to get square. Unbeknown to me Allan new what I was up to and we had a good laugh about it years after. To fix the underage betting problem I engaged a lovely lady by the name of Mrs Connors who lived in my street to do my 2 shilling wagering for me on Saturdays. We had to give up the midweek meetings after a photo of me being published in the Thursday west holding a horse in the winners stall. I would get Mrs Connors to bet with Allan when ever possible to get him back. He knew very well what I was up to and after a good while he called Mrs Connors over and gave her 1 pound to give to me and said we were square. I reckon he was trying to teach me a lesson about betting at a young age but it didn't work. He was an absolute gentleman as most of them were then. We had some good laughs about things later in life.

bookielover

Naughty boy, Falcon. 

Warren was a pro tennis player and is a yank by birth. I have been told that he's not a ladies man, so both surnames are probably appropriate.

X_X X_X

bookielover

Forgot to do this ;) after calling you a naughty boy falcon.

With all the influence you have in Perth, I don't want to get barred or worse

:( :( :D

Piston_Broke

Was not Erics dad Arthur a bookie

Rex

Piston_Broke said:

Was not Erics dad Arthur a bookie

Yes he was. They lived in Rivervale and Arthur ran the then Ampol garage on the corner of Acton Ave and the Hwy.

JayJay

And I think George Davies' Dad had the Rivervale Cake shop - they lived in Gladstone Street - and the fruit mince pies at Christmas time were top notch. George and Alan wells were great mates. The bloke who had the TAB shop in Bentley (Trevor?) had no such problems with underage betting. He used to let me on from the day I backed Yamagee E/W with Don Harper behind it and it ran 3rd paying about 5 quid for a place. I thought "geez, how long has this caper been going on, easiest way to make a quid in the world".....famous last thoughts!!!

thefalcon

i've been going to the races since i was a nipper. when i got to 17, dressed in a suit i use to punt and drink at the bar...NEVER got p*ssed or anything like that. the racecourse D was max bligh and he was always giving me the evil eye and at times admonishing me....the legal drinking age then was 21.

anyway, max had a nasty accident, skidded up the beach on his board and very badly severed tendons etc in his foot.

out of the goodness of my heart...i really lliked and admired the guy, i sent him a get   well card.

when he finally returned to work, he never admonished me again, in fact use to grin, nod his head and say 'afternoon, geoff".

them was the days....

thefalcon

eric's brother, rod was also a bookie.

Rex

the falcon said:

i've been going to the races since i was a nipper. when i got to 17, dressed in a suit i use to punt and drink at the bar...NEVER got p*ssed or anything like that. the racecourse D was max bligh and he was always giving me the evil eye and at times admonishing me....the legal drinking age then was 21.

anyway, max had a nasty accident, skidded up the beach on his board and very badly severed tendons etc in his foot.

out of the goodness of my heart...i really lliked and admired the guy, i sent him a get   well card.

when he finally returned to work, he never admonished me again, in fact use to grin, nod his head and say 'afternoon, geoff".

them was the days....

Dead right falcon, Max Blight was a good bloke and fair considering the job he had. The last time I saw Max he was a gateman for Osborne metals in Osborne Park and we often talked about the tricks you blokes got up to. I still remember when I was younger I were a mate of the late Peter Ologhlen and used to transfer messages from the Jocks room to his punter and Max was right on to me.He picked me up by the scruff of the neck one day and pushed me into the brick wall outside the jockeys room winding me and warned me that I would get more if he caught me again so I used to go through the ambulance gate to get in the room so as he didn't catch me. He was a very keen water skier.

thefalcon

rex, i was a great mate of peter alphonsos. joan is now living in mandurah.

one friday i had lunch with him at the adelphi steak house, he was like a celebrity, guys coming up shaking his hand. anyway, i NEVER even hinted for a tip, we were too good a mates, anyway that day he told me he'd ride 3 the following day..

yes, he did ride 3 BUT not the three he told me.

lets see how my memory is..lord boswell, manxbury  and greentoi spring to mind.

if hearts'n'diamonds wins the railway i win a lot of money..knocked off by a nose.

:(

Rex

the falcon said:

rex, i was a great mate of peter alphonsos. joan is now living in mandurah.

one friday i had lunch with him at the adelphi steak house, he was like a celebrity, guys coming up shaking his hand. anyway, i NEVER even hinted for a tip, we were too good a mates, anyway that day he told me he'd ride 3 the following day..

yes, he did ride 3 BUT not the three he told me.

lets see how my memory is..lord boswell, manxbury  and greentoi spring to mind.

if hearts'n'diamonds wins the railway i win a lot of money..knocked off by a nose.

:(

If my memory serves me right didn't he and Nick Botica get time over Frank Madigans horses Hearts 'n'diomonds in the railway but got out on apeal.

youknowit

bookielover said:

I thought, I'd start this thread so that some of you that knew the bookies that I'll mention here, might like to offer some stories about them that may be of interest to us.

These are the bookies that I knew of in Perth.

Ray Deardon, massive bookie in his day.  Would  like to say "next" after taking a big bet without turning off the price.

Jo Jordan, who was very astute trainer, Ab Jordans brother, Allan(porky) Wells,Ken Grey, I could be wrong but I think he was a big bookie in the eastern States ring, if it's the same bloke, I have got a story about him, Sonny Lee, Merv Cash,Ned Hinchcliffe, Rod Evans, Lucky Khalaf, Billy Mac, unfortunately, just passed away, Ross Cooper, trot bookie Gordon Lennox, Terry Rhode I hope his first name was Terry ,and that's about it from me. 

Bookies that are still working from the years that I went in the late 80's are Bluey Glynn, was in the interstate ring, as was Don Martin from memory on the concession, and of course gentleman Bob Howatt. And I'm sure you will all wish Bob a complete recovery from his ongoing health issues.

So if you have any stories about these and others, I'd love to read about them. I am sure that in their own way, they all contributed and some still contribute to the atmosphere of the Perth betting ring.

Know most of those, i think the only ones still fielding are Don & Bluey, remember Don taking some big bets when Perth was a bigger betting ring than it is today, a couple of big punters were betting to win up to 100K, and i recall one bet of 50,000 to 1000 each way in the eastern states ring. Also remember a well known punter having $60,000 to $10,000 concession Prowl when it won the Golden Slipper and $30,000 on Willoughby when it won the Railway Stakes.

RoisinDubh

I wonder if he remembered me as the bloke who asked him for a fraction bet of 2000/280 at 7/1 in 1988, The stare he gave me 25 years ago, was exactly the same stare he gave me last year

Ohh, might not have copied and pasted that as is supposed to be done. Notorious to worry. A standard bet for the fractions men and Eric would bet you that without blinking.

Speaking of fractions, Does anyone else apart from me still ask for fraction bets nowadays in Perth? Not long ago when I had 500/30 Brett Lenton told me that I was the only one....

RoisinDubh

Yep, I remember the great bookies strike. It was a 'stand alone' meeting for John Squarcini. He's never been as busy. Couldn't write tickets fast enough.it was like betting on the Melbourne cup Sweated like a pig and had NFI. All the other bookies went on a river cruise and did their betting between themselves I believe. Can't recall what it was about though. Anyone jog my memory?

RoisinDubh

What about the greyhound bookies? Boyden Marinich, Ian Elliot, Gordon Khoo, Peter Morley, George Truscott, Bill Wear, Michael Foley(half in with Ted), Brett Lenton for a short while, the mad bloke with the beard who foley and Ted started out clerking for, mick Glasson early days, Michael Ratner (now there's a character!). All fielding in the new ring up in he grandstand in the era of Calruin, Blue Echo, Cola Cub, Afro Freeway etc....

I'd nominate Bill Wear as the second nicest bookie I've ever known. A true gentlemen in every sense of the word....

thefalcon

anybody remember barney glasson..had a face like a beetroot and a million kids...good irish stock.

JayJay

Yep, classic. Rivalled the Millers with the size of his brood but not as dapper in the dress department. Barney always looked like a stop sign.

rustyh

=)) =))
Hey Falc, had a laugh about you being 17 and the course detective sussing you out.
Reminds me of when I started clerking in Geraldton. I was 13.
Never got tuned until I was 16.
Maurie Boyd and Syd Gibson told me I wasn't allowed to do it as I was too young.
Never mind I was into my fourth year of clerking by then! :-bd
Think I missed a week then was back into it.
Just had to hide if I seen them from then on. :-c :-c

Trixster

I would have to agree with the comments of twiggy that Chris Christianopoulos was a true gentleman in respect to all the bookmakers out there. As far as the most miserable bookmaker out there that I can recall was John Sarre. I recall a horse won a welter which was always usually the last race on the program and started at 100/1, you could not possibly be on as it couldnt win on the limit at minginew. I mentioned to John after the race that that would have been a skinner. He replied " nah broke square on the race. Give us a spell John, we might not punt smart but doesnt mean we dont think smart.

bookielover

RoisinDubh,

I think you may have misunderstood my post. 

I know that Eric was a big bookie and 2,000/280 wouldn't make him blink. For reasons best known to him, he refused to bet me the fraction, so I went to the bookie next door. It wasn't the refusal, it was the contempt in his eyes that I would even dare to ask for the fraction. I thought it hilarious at the time, and still do.

thefalcon

i hate to speak ill of the dead but i agree with your assessment of john sarre.

SLIPPERGOLDEN

I think the Spanbrook brothers at one stage had an interest in the Leederville Hotel 

Gilgamesh

Was it the book boys or the paper who put an end to publishing the big bets for the day on a sunday. I use to enjoy seeing where the money had gone and if the mighty punter had beaten the dastardly bagmen.

thefalcon

indeed they did slip, then steve had the now defunct pub in lord st. near bulwer.

when he died steve was running the peninsular (maylands) golf course.

thefalcon

this is a great thread..please keep it going.

JayJay

Does anyone remember the "supplementary" bookies ring at Gloucester Park? It was overflow from the main ring on big nights and about 6 bookies would set up there, often as a satellite stand for the actual bookie fielding in the main ring. There would be runners going back and forth between the 2 rings relaying prices and betting moves and sometimes, there was muck ups in the prices. One night, it was Johnny Toledo and Typhson clashing in one of the big Xmas races - the Christmas Gift or Christmas Handicap. Typhson was 2's on and we wanted to back Johny Toledo who was 7/2 in the main ring. A fair price and we jumped on board. Going up the escalator next to the supplementary ring, someone (I think Eric Mack or maybe Bill) had Johnny at 8's. Off the escalator and straight on for another 100. Not huge bucks I know and it was about our last 100 but Jimmy the Jet got Johnny home over rocker Lindau on Typhson and it was smiles all around. The pay out clerk couldn't believe the ticket and got someone to check it but it was all sweet and was one night when we went home smiling. Nowadays, one bookie or mostly none. Its just not the same.

bookielover

I have just done a count of the names of Perth Bookies that have been mentioned on here. The number is 53. Of those only two are still working. Bob Howatt and Bluey Glynn.

So over the last, lets say 40 years,since 1973, the Perth ring has "lost" 51 bookmakers, from the races trots and dogs, that have not been replaced.

Perth isn't alone with that. There are only 5 bookmakers left working at the regular Saturday meetings in Adelaide, none at Globe Derby trots, but they do have two at Angle Park Greyhounds.  The Brisbane ring has about 9 bookies and there are 8 at the Gold Coast. 15 years ago, there were 15 at the Gold Coast and another 12 had applied and were waiting to get in.

The Sydney ring has been decimated with about 25 bookies working on a Saturday, but they still have a couple of bookies who bet very big, including David Dwyer who is the biggest, Shane Filipek and Grant Palmer. Robbie W is there but bets when it suits him.

At their mid week meetings at Gosford, Hawksbury and Wyong, they get around 4-5 bookies working.

From a bookie number point of view, Melbourne has the most number of bookies working. In Melbourne, 50 bookies work each Saturday, with 100 down to work each day of the Flemington Carnival. So there are still plenty of bookies here.

Mid week meetings at country tracks attract a ring between 6-8 bookies, and it's a closed ring in order to attempt to make the the ring viable, because more would work if they could get in. At Sandown midweeks, there are 18-20 bookies who work.

How long these numbers will hold up, I don't know, because every bookie I speak to keeps telling me the games fkd and that no one goes any more. Yet none have resigned.

So back to Perth.

The good old days are gone. For all sorts of reasons. 

Among those reasons, are the dependence that the racing clubs placed on TAB revenue, and their subsequent lack of encouragement and advertising to get punters to the track. They lost a generation of punters. Sky Channel, meant you didn't have to leave home. The lack of advertising by bookies alerting the stay at homes to the difference between what the punter could have got on course, as against the price the tote paid. The cost to go, and to feed yourself at the track. 

AND nothing has changed. Authorities in all States have accepted that aside from Carnival time, no one is going to go to the track, and no amount of advertising will get them there. Yet they wont throw the gates open on a Saturday to at least tempt some people to go.

Perth is even worse than the other states, because the authorities in Perth have shown no interest whatsoever to try and not only retain the bookies that they have, but to afford them every opportunity to run a viable business.

I hate to say this, but when you have authorities that spew forth platitudes that bookies are an integral part of the racing scene, that the track needs the bookies to create at least some atmosphere in a large area that would become a vacuum without them, and then do nothing to ensure that bookies can survive, then these authorities be they from RWWA, RGL or from the Government Minister for Racing are nothing more than hypocrites, whom I am sure have great difficulty lying straight in bed.

This has been a particularly fascinating thread for me, in that I remember, and was witness to a thriving Eastern States and Local betting ring in the late 80's.

Of course, I accept that with all the changes that have swept through racing in W.A. the former glory days could not have continued, but with just a minimum of foresight on the part of those in control rather than the blinkers that covered their eyes, Perth bookies would still be conducting business in a reasonable environment and a viable betting ring.

But when you have a group of people who did all they could  to stymie a bookmaking partnership from opening a web site, and who still do all they can to delay badly needed legislation to allow Perth bookies to compete with the Corporates and their Eastern State counterparts, then as optimistic as I usually am, and despite my wish that as long as I am alive and can come to Perth, I will be able to bet with a bookie on track at the races, I am become extremely doubtful that that wish will be granted. 

So thank you to all who posted on this thread.

I hope that if the authorities have bothered to read this thread and the questions on the other thread involving the future of bookmakers in Perth, that they will pull their heads out of the sand, remove the blinkers, remove the illegal restraint of trade that they have placed on Perth bookmakers, and allow those bookies that are left to conduct their business on a level playing field with their competitors in the hope that they may survive for the foreseeable future.

Because I can assure them that once the last bookmaker has turned out the lights on his way out the door of Ascot or Belmont, aside from an owner or two who really don't have to go, or a trainer, strapper and jockey who do have to go, NO ONE will attend a race meeting in Perth any more on a regular Saturday.

What they WILL have to contend with and have meeting after meeting every year about, will be how best to control 20,000 drunks on Melbourne Cup day and Perth Cup Day.

Now that should be fun.

:D :D

JayJay

Very true BL but to be fair, quite a number of the 51 have passed away. But could bolster the list by naming Sam Nicolaides, Kim Hunter, the Mallis family, Merv Cash, Roy Willison,  etc that I don't think cracked a mention in the postings.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/03/02/1014705006890.html

The decline has been an ongoing thing as per the above article from 2002. No bookies, no atmosphere full stop.

TheDiva

You're right Jay Jay that a number have passed away or retired. The issue there is that the new blood hasn't come through to replace them. Only a handful of new bookies since I started about 8 years ago.

jonesee

JayJay said:

Very true BL but to be fair, quite a number of the 51 have passed away. But could bolster the list by naming Sam Nicolaides, Kim Hunter, the Mallis family, Merv Cash, Roy Willison,  etc that I don't think cracked a mention in the postings.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/03/02/1014705006890.html

The decline has been an ongoing thing as per the above article from 2002. No bookies, no atmosphere full stop.

That article was interesting. The last two years I have really felt that racing was just following the trots into betting ablivion. We now have all the big trots trainers with massive teams at the races. The betting market has shrunk and is shrinking more every week and every single time a well backed horse gets a surprising soft lead...when do we get the mobile barriers?