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Karrakatta Plate

West Australian Racing

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  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    My reading of it was moreso - what makes a good 2yo rarely makes a good 3yo+

    And on that note - if you don't run those ones at 2, you get nothing.
    The risk in buying those types is if you miss out (injury etc) you might get nothing......

    Hence why I personally prefer 3yo classics types.
    Would rather win the guineas than the Karra
    +1 -1
  • NgawyniNgawyni    786 posts
    said:

    It's not about the Scenic Blasts of the World, as he is an exception to any rule, but it is the 95% who run prior to Christmas each year and do almost nothing for the remainder of their career. My perception may be wrong but I just can't see any benefit other than to a breeding industry aligned to trying to produce early runners at the cost of high quality 3YO's and above.

    And to make matters worse, we then send these under achievers to stud in WA to further dilute the next generation of horses offered for sale and raced here in WA.

    Damien most of those I mentioned did run prior to Christmas. In fact the Karakatta used to be run on Boxing Day.

    Rather than make up figures like 95%, read the articles based on empirical data.

    As to 2 yos going to stud, some of the greatest sires in Australian racing have won the Golden Slipper - Todman, Vain, Baguette, Luskin Star, Marscay, Flying Spur etc - while Redoute's Choice won the Blue Diamond (beating Testa Rossa) as did Bel Esprit. Fastnet Rock had 7 starts as a 2 yo (including 4th in the Golden Slipper), Lonrho had 5 and Exceed n Excel 4 starts at 2. Redoute's Choice and Fastnet Rock have sired numerous classic winners.

    The problem in WA is that the market cannot sustain expensive freshman sires - so the new ones that come here are generally second or third string racetrack performers at best (Saxon is an example. He won 4 of 26 starts with his best win the Queensland Guineas). You then have to be lucky for one of those to fire. It will happen from time to time (it's a numbers game) which is why WA has had champion sires in the past and will again. If the stars align and we get 2 or 3 up and running at the same time (such as when Zvornik, Jungle Boy and Beau Sovereign were firing) then the breed in this state will improve.
    +1 -1
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    Well said.

    On the point of sires though - it takes two to tango.
    You could put Redoute's over a donkey, and you'll still get a mule............
    More people on here (and in general) need to look down the page a bit
    +1 -1
  • H-BOMBERH-BOMBER    10,567 posts
    said:

    Baring Night War over here who has gone on to win at 3,4 and 5 ??
    And on the East coast ??

    Old mate Bomber Bill did alright for a long time 8)
    +1 -1
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    8,008 posts
    said:

    Well said.

    On the point of sires though - it takes two to tango.
    You could put Redoute's over a donkey, and you'll still get a mule............
    More people on here (and in general) need to look down the page a bit

    That was my point, in WA we offer yearlings from ordinary mares and then get disappointed by the market when they don't sell to vendors expectations.

    The WA mare population is diluted, but also the Stallions offered here are not Premier Sale material apart from Blackfriars and Oratorio
    +1 -1
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    Anything's Premier sale quality if the mare's good enough, irrespective of the sire
    +1 -1
  • TheDivaTheDiva    13,248 posts
    Wynyard Hall, dam of Darlington Abbey, in the Autumn Thoroughbred Sale. Unreserved dispersal sale on behalf of Durham Lodge.

    Be worth something if she can win the Karraktatta....
    +1 -1
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    Is worth something now.

    Little birdy tells me she will have a sister in the July sale too
    +1 -1
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    Dam of the Derby winner in there too
    +1 -1
  • thefalconthefalcon    20,505 posts
    why would they be disposing of 2 such broodmares?
    had their day? menopause set in? :lol:
    +1 -1
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    Every mare they own is in there.
    +1 -1
  • OneputtOneputt    7 posts
    AT still waiting on a flight.
    Seems its not that easy to get a flight from melb to Perth
    +1 -1
  • rot8inrot8in    1,881 posts
    said:

    I think Spice Again will be a good show, plenty of heart

    just interested to know where you put KOROLENKO(EM2) 100/1
    +1 -1
  • justmyluckjustmyluck    140 posts
    Miss Solis is not a nominee for the Karrakatta Plate unfornately
    +1 -1
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    8,008 posts
    said:

    Miss Solis is not a nominee for the Karrakatta Plate unfornately

    drawn barrier 18 so she is definately running
    +1 -1
  • TheDivaTheDiva    13,248 posts
    said:

    Miss Solis is not a nominee for the Karrakatta Plate unfornately

    youre one of those googlebots arent you justmyluck? you're not even a real person...just a smart little program. It always comes out in the wash. :lol:
    +1 -1
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    Interesting observation......Nearly half the field (7) are owned and raced by their breeders
    +1 -1
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    8,008 posts
    said:

    Interesting observation......Nearly half the field (7) are owned and raced by their breeders

    were they offered and didn't make reserve ? or did they sell and now it comes to light that they were buybacks ?

    either way, good luck to any owner with a runner
    +1 -1
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    Who's to say they even went to the sales.
    Point I'm making is sales,and buying the flashiest bred at that, aren't everything.

    Let me know if you look up the sales history... I'm watching Adam Hills :)
    +1 -1
  • thefalconthefalcon    20,505 posts
    great show, tivs...
    i reckon da is almost a good thing...thinking of opening the purse strings, which i do not do very often.....
    +1 -1
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    said:

    said:

    Interesting observation......Nearly half the field (7) are owned and raced by their breeders

    were they offered and didn't make reserve ? or did they sell and now it comes to light that they were buybacks ?
    El Rijes - wasn't offered at sale
    Detection - passed in at sale, retained by breeders
    Our Maxy Boy - wasn't offered at sale
    Looking Ahead - wasn't offered at sale
    The Danehill Rose - withdrawn from sale (not offered)
    Secret Scandal - may have been offered at Yarradale sale ?
    Fine Copper - withdrawn from sale (not offered)

    So possibly only one sold and "bought back", but that's Ronnie's and his buybacks are declared up front
    +1 -1
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    8,008 posts
    said:

    said:

    said:

    Interesting observation......Nearly half the field (7) are owned and raced by their breeders

    were they offered and didn't make reserve ? or did they sell and now it comes to light that they were buybacks ?
    El Rijes - wasn't offered at sale
    Detection - passed in at sale, retained by breeders
    Our Maxy Boy - wasn't offered at sale
    Looking Ahead - wasn't offered at sale
    The Danehill Rose - withdrawn from sale (not offered)
    Secret Scandal - may have been offered at Yarradale sale ?
    Fine Copper - withdrawn from sale (not offered)

    So possibly only one sold and "bought back", but that's Ronnie's and his buybacks are declared up front
    So with the benefit of watching the babies grow up, it seems these breeders are smart enough to pick out the quality ones and keep them for racing themselves. Good luck to them.

    But as someone I know has mentioned to me on several occasions, if you breed and pick out the best for yourself, and sell the rest, the market will become aware of that and value your stock even less in the sales ring. So it may be a practise to be careful in what you want to be, breed to sell or breed to race and not both.
    +1 -1
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    I would suggest that most of them, on the contrary, were actually deemed not worthy of acceptance for the sale.
    Certainly know at least three there as such.

    Which supports the opposite theory - sell the best, keep the rest.
    Take the money that's offered and race the ones with bent legs that no one wants, which probably will produce just as many results.
    +1 -1
  • RIORIO    14,902 posts
    Take the money that's offered and race the ones with bent legs that no one wants, which probably will produce just as many results.


    :lol: :lol: so true
    +1 -1
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    said:

    Interesting observation......Nearly half the field (7) are owned and raced by their breeders

    Make that exactly half - 8
    (Keeper Quiet still owned, and leased)

    and therefore 7 of those 8 weren't presented at sales (ie no conspiracies)
    +1 -1
  • FoolsGoldFoolsGold    148 posts
    reliably informed by people that would know that the inside pad of the track resembles a bowling green.

    Should ensure an absolute dynamite rail bias for one of our feature days, which surely must be the track managers intention given how often it occurs.
    +1 -1
  • TheDivaTheDiva    13,248 posts
    that would get the eagle boys across the line then!
    +1 -1
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    Except that relies on Pontiff beating his Karrakatta hoodoo
    +1 -1
  • RIORIO    14,902 posts
    said:

    that would get the eagle boys across the line then!

    to quote a well known identity on here...(ie no conspiracies) 8)
    +1 -1
  • Brett10Brett10    79 posts
    Spoke with Simon Miller this morning, he said inside was as described (bowling green). Word is Aleazan Thunder is on a flight over tonight. She'll prove hard to beat if she can cross relatively easily.
    +1 -1
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