Boat race we just saw

Piston_Broke · February 2013

I have the proof, Boat Races do excist

SuperSnoop · February 2013

Holly1 said:
Rio I cannot understand you bringing Roman Knows into the discussion. P Carbery was on as a jockey change because Pike is out - the horse was placed well in running and won. Hard to see a problem with that race

this is where you miss the point. Nothing wrong with the ride, or the change on Roman Knows. You need not be looking at the winner of the race, its the others around it whose chances were decreased due to the way they were ridden, making roman knows a good bet, even at the $3 and $2.80....all the way down to $2.60.
Who would have thought Roman Knows $4 to $2.60 against such a good horse like Kalahaar?

RIO · February 2013

Buddy23 said:
No RIO i wasn't refering to the umpires looking at every appeal. I was refering to me, the viewer of the game, getting sick of watching to the pakis appeal for ridiculous attempts and in the case of ptt, people writing the same thing over and over. You get the analogy now. Trying not to play the man, just the situation.

Yeah your right..Listen..I've said it before but maybe not this clearly..I'm really Sick of the Accusations on boat races. I have put a lot up here myself over the past 6 months..I'm not a punter. I'm a horse owner who likes to have a punt, and there appears to be an unlevel playing field.

I do know from first hand experience that there are jockeys in Perth that are into stand over tactics...I saw it and heard it with my own eyes and ears. I took this to the stewards..and they did nothing. A horse ridden upside down with another massively plunged horse sitting on its hind, got dragged into the race beautifully, before being pulled out and cruising to an easy win.

That is why I go on about it..not cos I lost a bet somewhere..Cos as an owner I paid $10k to have my horse prepped and then to have all that money wasted due to some little fu..er and his bent mates wanting to make a bent dollar or two...

So I know it happens...........and I also know it can’t be proven..but if the stewards don’t ask questions, then the invincibility of these individuals just grows..

So, sorry to you and that the other poster I had a shot at - for playing the man..it is pure frustration..And I did go to the stewards and I did identify myself - scary thing to do I can tell you, just ask AC - and nothing gets done..If you go to the authorities and they do nothing..what else can you do but come on here and whinge????

I looked at plunge bets for about a month and the absurdly obvious rider changes that occurred before a plunge(not necessarily on the plunge horses but one that effects the pace of the race) is so obvious when you know(or think you do) where to look..

The Roman Knows comment was just an example of where the stewards may look if they are looking for a plunge that comes off, to look..I will repeat for those that don’t read all the threads.. I feel that PR could have easily won that race. I had a win only bet on it. I'm not 100% certain it was a set up..but it carries a lot of the criteria of others that I have looked into.

As an owner these continued bad rides(very lose description) are costing us a fortune in lost prize money after spending a lot of time and money to prep a horse. And when what happened with my horse last time I just accepted it... If it ever happens again I will personally physically attack the midget that does that to me..so that there has to be an investigation. I was just dumbfounded by the brazen attitude of this piece of crap..and he was mentioned on most people’s recent posts about the top 4 jocks in the state. Not that it should ever happen again cos there are a couple of jocks I will never let near my horses..I’d scratch my horse than let them sit on any of them..In fact I am not even comfortable with 2 of them riding in the same races as mine any more.

So that is where I am coming from..First hand experience as an owner who took a chance and went to the stewards and they did nothing..Not a disgruntled punter...and I will try my hardest not to post on these issues again..it’s not good for my blood pressure!!!!
~X(

RIO · February 2013

Piston_Broke said:
I have the proof, Boat Races do excist

hahaha..is tht the todd river ones??? At work and cant see it properly

Thumper · February 2013

Well said RIO. A guest stint for you on the Monday morning panel on racing radio would be good when the stewards come on. Certainly be a change from listening to the stewards report being repeated on air.

Radman · February 2013

RIO said:
..it’s not good for my blood pressure!!! ~X(

You know what else is bad for your blood pressure? Spending all day in front of the computer watching porn.

No wonder yours is 185/110 RIO

hash · February 2013

if you blokes are that serious and want to make a statement, put your story/evidence etc etc forward to current affair....
you can guarantee if you mentioned this to them and the name danny nikolic they'd put two and two together and that'd be enough for them to look into producing an enquiry that would lead to a story

Carlosa · February 2013

Spot on Rio - well articulated.

I was speaking to a mate of mine about 5 months ago about this at The Hydey - he brought this to my attention (sadly, he works in the industry and had basically said, simimlarly to Rio, he and others brought it to the Stewards almost weekly for them to just shrug their shoulders).

As someone who only recently bought into horses for the first time it was not what I wanted to hear, and subsequently, see.

[DeletedUser] · February 2013

hash said:
if you blokes are that serious and want to make a statement, put your story/evidence etc etc forward to current affair....
you can guarantee if you mentioned this to them and the name danny nikolic they'd put two and two together and that'd be enough for them to look into producing an enquiry that would lead to a story

Well said Hash. If you blokes are serious, go to the newspapers, T.V. Or anywhere that will listen and run with it. Put your name to it and your allegations, names of those you think are involved and get it in the open. Other than that these continued beatings are until now just that, and are becoming very very tiresome.

Thumper · February 2013

As tiresome as it may be for some the continual raising of this topic it has to be done and those doing it should be congratulated. Nobody is forced to read the threads about the boat races so if you tired of them don't read them.

I'm sure there are a stack of people on the indusrty that would love to go the media but we know that would be a death sentence the way our industry is censored in this state.

goose · February 2013

Cant see the media being interested in some boat races in WA main stream dont care they think it goes on all the time take it too some politicians see what they make of it they might shake some trees.
For what it is worth Ascot track is part of the problem favouring on pacers.

thefalcon · February 2013

can i say something?
i have been going to the races since i was about 12, dad was involved in commentating and later as sp officer.
do you realize how hard it would be to set up a boatie? i cannot be done overnight, it takes weeks of planning.
a race is selected, all parties are in on the scheme, owners (maybe), trainers and jocks. in cannot be connived within 24 hrs of the race...just think, a, say 10 horse field...10 trainers and 10 jocks, yes even the rank outsider has to be in.* takes a bit of time.
do you for one moment think our top trainers would be involved in anything like that. i know simon well enough to tell you he'd upper-cut the guy who approached him. nev, col webster, luciani...no way!! they'd be out for life if proved they were in the cut up.
ANY boat races are usually done on a provincial track, main race, no more than 10 starters. fact.
*dad told of one at a provincial way back when, every jock was in on it except the apprentice on the roughie. yep, you guessed it, down the outside and knocked the pea off. i think the jock was tommy unkovich.
if you want to see a boat race, go down to sydney harbour on boxing day.....

RIO · February 2013

Radman said:

RIO said:
..it’s not good for my blood pressure!!! ~X(
You know what else is bad for your blood pressure? Spending all day in front of the computer watching porn.

No wonder yours is 185/110 RIO

it's controlled with drugs now mate, but i cant recall the last time mine read that low on either indices!!!!! 100m sprints aren't much help either :D

brady · February 2013

the falcon said:
can i say something?
i have been going to the races since i was about 12, dad was involved in commentating and later as sp officer.
do you realize how hard it would be to set up a boatie? i cannot be done overnight, it takes weeks of planning.
a race is selected, all parties are in on the scheme, owners (maybe), trainers and jocks. in cannot be connived within 24 hrs of the race...just think, a, say 10 horse field...10 trainers and 10 jocks, yes even the rank outsider has to be in.* takes a bit of time.
do you for one moment think our top trainers would be involved in anything like that. i know simon well enough to tell you he'd upper-cut the guy who approached him. nev, col webster, luciani...no way!! they'd be out for life if proved they were in the cut up.
ANY boat races are usually done on a provincial track, main race, no more than 10 starters. fact.
*dad told of one at a provincial way back when, every jock was in on it except the apprentice on the roughie. yep, you guessed it, down the outside and knocked the pea off. i think the jock was tommy unkovich.
if you want to see a boat race, go down to sydney harbour on boxing day.....

Met Tommy always had many stories to tell great chap many memories !

Carlosa · February 2013

You don't need everyone involved if you are only looking to make an already handy 5/2 chance run as a genuine evens pop.

Piston_Broke · February 2013

problem u would have reporting it to the authorities is you have no proof, I don't think there are boat races run in Perth, I I cant name 1 jockey who I would think would be capable of giving a 2nd fav a run and not being noticed, simply because they have all grown up in a industry where they haven't been taught how to give a horse a run without changing their style, it's something "old school jocks" did because that was the way to get a quid. I honestly think this so called Syd group just do the form, you only hear the wins, there are losses as well but no one hears about them.

RIO · February 2013

I know that PB and Wilson are adamant that things are fine as they are...and good on you guys for speaking out, this is a forum for opinions and if there weren't opposing opinions it'd be a boring forum..

And i take on board a line that PB continually puts forward, that the jocks in WA aren't intelligent - or good enough riders - to manage a boat race..i reckon he is very close to the mark.

But these aren't boat races in that context, cos as falcon says it'd take a lot of people to organize..the changes are very subtle and provide an opportunity for the best horse in the race to win..i'd say with confidence that there are times when the winning jockey doesn't even know he has been helped...or that he is on the set up animal..And falcon one of the races i looked at there was potential for it to be set up 2 or 3 rides earlier. So there is definitely some of that done.

We all want the industry to prosper..more money for all, and for some of us a chance to actually make some money out of things..Cos at the moment there isn't a lot of people in this industry in WA smiling all the way to the bank..

And the only people who can restore that confidence is the stewards, who can investigate to the finest detail anything they want...but appear to choose to let things go unabated. i certainly wouldn't go to the media..5 minutes on ACA between adds could only ever be a recipe for sensationalizing the industry..not helping it.

And whistle blowers are ostracized for life even if the are right..i actually enjoy being involved in this industry and want to be in it for the rest of my life..

i will avoid those who i have seen as bent, and those that i suspect..My piffling NFP stable of mules will not effect their incomes and would struggle to be part of a well organised boat race..unless we bought in betting on 5-10th places!!!

thefalcon · February 2013

rubbish, carlosa!!

goose · February 2013

Cmon Falcon no one is saying everyone is involved just a couple being ridden to advantage or disadvantage.

Thumper · February 2013

I'd be very surprised if any trainers are involved Falcon and I'm positive they're not. As RIO and others have said many times it has nothing to do with the winning jockey or trainers. Diva made a very good point that every single runner Sydney invest on has the race run to suit and I'll add that the other main chances in the race are usually disadvantaged.Could easily be organised in about 30 minutes. These aren't the old fashioned boat races

[DeletedUser] · February 2013

Well there is one positive from all this negativity. We will be able to buy at the sales cheaper cos not many would want to invest after reading this thread. For that I say Thankyou...
:D

thefalcon · February 2013

rio, me old china plate, i do not think it is nearly as bad as you make out.
"straight" trainers, jocks etc would turn stool pigeons out of morality.
if all that is alleged is true it would be the greatest scandle in oz racing history.
don't forget the alleged perpetrators are in sydney.....
woof, woof..another shadow....
i am not for one minute saying some horses "have a run"....you can never stop that but as far as setting up boaties a few times a month...no way.

thefalcon · February 2013

by the way..any "boatie" is usually an 80+ or in the old lingo, a welter.
experienced horses.....

Radman · February 2013

RIO said:
... and he was mentioned on most people’s recent posts about the top 4 jocks in the state.

So if its not Donga, Pontiff, Wizz, Knucks or Carbs it must be that other guy!!!!!

There's a few jocks I never back, no names on here but it's obvious a couple do play games. But thats racing.

Always has been and always will be the odd rogue

thefalcon · February 2013

true words, radman
i'll buy you a steak some time? rare?

goose · February 2013

Wilson I dont think it would stop people buying a horse most people would know there is some fun and games go on in racing isnt that part of the excitement and history in the game any industry would have people pushing the envelope walking the line.
But when they do they know they might get caught and face the penalty Falcon greatest scandal is a massive call there has been many books written about bigger scandals.

thefalcon · February 2013

exaggerating probably, goose.
other scandles have been one off..eg fine cotton.
the allegations about wa is week in week out boaties...its bull5hit

goose · February 2013

Yer I am not sure blame the track as much as anything but still would like to see the stewards doing more instead of nothing.
Read the George Freeman book a while back he had a few things on the go at the track.

Radman · February 2013

the falcon said:
i'll buy you a steak some time?

Ha!

Some guy bet me $100 I couldn't reach the two pieces of meat on the top shelf. I didn't take the bet because the Steaks were too high. :D

Piston_Broke · February 2013

I never said they aren't intelligent (too many have $$$ to be stupid) but being in a boat race is something these blokes couldn't or wouldn't be able to do, its not something u can learn in 5 minutes. Too many riders here wouldn't be silly enough to get involved, there are no secrets in Racing

G'day Punter!

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