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germany the next hot spot for stallions

Breeding
lamelame    1,757 posts
edited April 2013 Breeding
The German breeding association demands that a horse earn a certain level on their Free Handicap at 3 before it can stand in Germany,this is where breeders in Europe and australia will be starting to look to fortify their weakening stock these days, they have a good quality control in place for toughness and racing quality
+1 -1

SPUDLEY, PieMan likes this post.

Comments

  • SPUDLEYSPUDLEY    1,584 posts
    This would stop every Tom, Dick or Harry horse turning up being stakes placed somewhere trying to be a successful stallion.

    Jordan, PieMan likes this post.

  • lamelame    1,757 posts
    Eigelstein
    not a stallion but measuring up over here and the first of many more as people will start to take notice
  • TheFunksterTheFunkster    3,840 posts
    Tiger Hill won his Gr1's in Germany. Only shuttled here with Darley for a few seasons. Pity the decision was made to not shuttle him any more before his progeny started to fire. Now deceased I think.
  • JayJayJayJay    8,624 posts
    Breeding controls look good on paper but there would be an awful lot of champions who would never have been bred. Self monitored quality control has to be the way to go. Breeders should decide to use Tom, Dick or Harry, not have an Aryan race type control system.

    Dale, goose likes this post.

  • lamelame    1,757 posts
    agree jay jay , but this place will inject new blood and strains like Ireland did to our rather limited gene pool now . Watch the story unfold over the next 10-20 years
  • SLIPPERGOLDENSLIPPERGOLDEN    8,456 posts
    Another big win for Germany in the UK overnight.
  • JayJayJayJay    8,624 posts
    Yes,it is true that the "Irish" boosted bloodlines spectacularly- similar to the huge boost to colonial bred standardbreds from the USA. From that perspective, lets have some good imports but lets not restrict "Billy the backyard breeder" from producing his Satinovers and the like.
  • lamelame    1,757 posts
    edited August 2013

    The Lane’s End Weekender Pedigree: German Influence





































    Danedream wins Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe
    Danedream wins Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe

    The runaway victory by Novellist in the Group 1 King George VI
    and Queen Elizabeth Stakes at Ascot on Saturday carries several points
    of importance for breeding and racing. First, German breeders and their
    bloodstock are hitting the brass ring of premium international success
    at a far higher rate than their opponents, rather in the fashion of the
    Dormello Stud operation of Federico Tesio and Mario Incisa, breeders of
    Nearco and Ribot, the best among many high-class racers.

    There is no single reason why this should be so. The breeders in
    Germany do not spend outlandish sums for bloodstock, nor do they have
    the sought-after bloodlines to work with. This makes their results all
    the more impressive and perhaps instructive to the rest of the
    bloodstock world.

    One explanation for the ascendency of breeders in Germany and their
    bloodstock came in a conversation a few years ago. In the aftermath of
    the debacle of Bellamy Road’s effort as favorite in the 2006 Kentucky
    Derby, I sat down to dinner with the internationally known and respected
    bloodstock writer Tony Morris.

    In a wide-ranging and illuminating talk, Morris mentioned that
    breeders in Germany were doing excellent work and that they were reaping
    the rewards for years of concentrated effort. Although I knew the
    international performers already on the stage from German breeding,
    Morris’s contention was that there was more depth and quality to come.

    To my query about why this was so, he said that the breeding programs
    of the best German studs focused on the athleticism of the parent
    stock. In addition to racing ability, the criteria for breeding stock
    included an emphasis on conformation, on soundness, and on racing
    without medication.

    Yet I’m not sure even Morris would have envisioned the volume of
    premier winners German breeders have been producing of late. For
    decades, the Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe and King George have figured
    notably among the most contentious international races, and German-breds
    have won three recent runnings of those races, with Danedream (2011
    Arc, 2012 King George) and Novellist in the King George.

    LE-13313-CURLIN-PR300x250[1]

    Novellist is the latest of these but surely not the last. The momentum
    for Thoroughbred breeding in Germany is very positive, and when the
    production of top international performers indicates a sea change in
    breeding, as when North American breeders were producing horses like Sir
    Ivor, Habitat, Nijinsky, and Mill Reef nearly half a century ago, it is
    wise to pay attention.

    Although dropped in Ireland when his high-class dam was there for
    covering, Novellist is as pure a product of the German breeding and
    racing program as one could wish. He is by the grand old sire of German
    breeding, Monsun, whose influence is going to be larger than one country
    can contain. Already the sire of 96 stakes winners (15% to foals),
    Monsun has sired such internationally acclaimed performers as Shirocco,
    Stacelita, and Manduro.

    Unfortunately, Monsun died last September at age 22, and this year
    the stallion’s top winners include Novellist, Estimate (Ascot Gold Cup,
    England), Silasol (Prix Saint-Alary, France), and Maxios (Prix
    d’Ispahan, France), all G1s. Their successes came at distances from nine
    to 12 furlongs, and nearly all the performers by Monsun showed improved
    form over a distance of ground.

    Given that heritage of stamina, German breeders did not ignore the importance of speed in a pedigree.

    Novellist is the fifth winner from five racers out of Night Lagoon,
    the highweighted juvenile filly in Germany for 2003. Novellist is much
    her best produce to date, but the stakes-winning daughter of Lagunas (a
    highweighted juvenile colt by 1978 King George winner Ile de Bourbon)
    has visited prominent stallions abroad (Arc de Triomphe winners Montjeu
    and Dalakhani) interspersed with matings to Monsun.

    Part of the thorough attention that German breeders have paid to
    breeding Thoroughbreds is their emphasis on the classics, both those
    races restricted to 3-year-olds and those supreme all-age contests, and
    the avoidance of one-dimensional sprinters. As a result, the stock from
    German studs does not make much of an impact in the top sprint category,
    but there also aren’t any classics run at five or six furlongs.

    American breeders have reached compulsively for the speed gun in
    breeding, in part due to the benevolent despotism of Mr. Prospector, who
    was such an influence for malleable speed of the highest quality that
    some of his sons and daughters won at the premium level going 10 and 12
    furlongs. Very few speed sires are in Mr. Prospector’s class, however.

    That makes the development of sires with genuine classic merit all
    the more important for breeding and racing here in the States. Horse of
    the Year Curlin, winner of the Preakness and a very close second in the
    Belmont Stakes, has made a promising start to his stud career as a sire
    of horses who mature well and show class going two turns. From the
    evidence to date, the big chestnut is following closely in the
    footprints of his sire Smart Strike, whose best offspring generally show
    their form at a mile or more, typically in their second season of
    racing or later.

    Curlin has sired a Belmont Stakes winner in his first crop, and
    Palace Malice franked the form of his classic victory last month with a
    clever-looking success in the G2 Jim Dandy Stakes at Saratoga, which is
    intended as the bay colt’s prep for the 10-furlong Travers.

    JayJay likes this post.

  • lamelame    1,757 posts

    Lucky Speed (IRE)

    2010 Silvano (GER) Lysuna (GER)

  • lamelame    1,757 posts
    Farhh (GB) 2008
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,991 posts
    I spent a considerable time last week and earlier, looking at the Arqana HIT known as The Arc Sale. The Lot I wished my client to pick up, went for roughly twice as much as had been hoped. It was already a dual Gr 3 winner, and had been examined by the Vet and found to be in top order. Chris Waller had an Bloodstock Agent on the ground looking at stock, and he was asked to closely examine this one. 

    There was stock that had exposed form over 1400M and thereabouts, but they hold little interest for me as I think we breed better horses up to a mile in Australia than the Europeans do. The horse I recommended had Group winning form at 2000M and to me looked to have tremendous upside in Australia. 

    Oh well.
  • lamelame    1,757 posts
    edited October 2013
    caulfield cup this weekend and 3 runners with german links

    WALDPARK (GER) [2008] 5yo b h 01/08/2008
    Dubawi (IRE) - Wurftaube (GER) (Acatenango (GER))
    SNEAK A PEEK (ITY) [2008] 5yo b h 05/04/2008
    Doyen (IRE) - Occhi Di Giada (GER) (Shantou (USA)
    IBICENCO (GER) [2008] 5yo b/br h 13/05/2008
    Shirocco (GER) - Iberi (GER) (Rainbow Quest (USA))
    in such a short space of time the influence is being felt already . now just to wait to see the results

  • lamelame    1,757 posts
    from a german friend on another forum Reliable Man to sand in Germany for the 2014 season
    regarding
    a report in the racing paper "Sportwelt", Reliable Man (Dalakhani - On
    Fair Stage by Sadlers Wells) will stand at the "Roettgen Stud" (Cologne)
    in 2014. A covering fee was not yet published.
    Mtw, it's the stud who developed the damline of Helmet, Bullbars and Epaulette
  • From Bloodstock.com.au please help Im I missing something on the Dam ????

    Name:GREAT VALUECategory:Tried horseSire:Samum (GER) 1997Dam:German Mare (GER) 2013Colour:ChestnutSex:ColtDOB:1 January 2010COB:GermanyLocation:Rutherford 2320 NSW, Australia View map »Date Listed:22 October 2013

    Description:

    The German horses are killing the Australian Horses at present, horses like Pakal, Salon Soldier, Hathras, Lucas Cranach, Mawingo have all dominated in Australia and we have this horse available for sale as he has become surplus to our needs.He is a very sound horse and has passed a full vet exam including x-rays.

    He would be ideal for anyone who wants to have a trainer of their choice to buy him. He is a very consistent horse and on the pedigree side of things he is only meant to be racing as a 4yr old- however his 3yr old form this season has been excellent considering he has been immature.
    The beauty of this horse is he has had just 5 starts and has placed 3 times behind some of Germany's best horses.This horse is ranked in the top 25 of his generation !!!

    The big advantage of this horse is he will come to Australia as a maiden galloper and even without improving at all - which all first prep horses do- not to mention the horse is bred to be a 5yr old- then you can see why we like him and why we think he can be a really above average horse in Australia.

    All 5 starts have either been in Group races or against horses who would go on and be Multiple Group horses.

    Check out his video in this advertisement and if your seriously wanting a Saturday plus horse at a bargain price act quickly as he wont last at this price as he is at least half the normal price you would pay for a horse of this quality

    **** Note: Shipping to Australia is $26k and is exclusive the quoted price ***

  • lamelame    1,757 posts
    i've seen dam private before but nothing like that
    all's i'ld say is BUYER BEWARE if 2+2 doesn't =4 somethings not quiet right
    i'll send a message through to a connection in germany but matching the photo to the horse in the video i'm thinking it the one that ran second cant read it properly but think possibly napolean ?
    but even still $111000 maiden would still be extremely cautious
  • DarkhorseDarkhorse    666 posts
    Kingston Town by Bletchingly out of Ada Hunter (GER)

    Tivers likes this post.

  • lamelame    1,757 posts
    ACCESSORIES ( dam of helmet , bullbars and Epaulette ) goes back to ANNA PAOLA  (GER) 1980 champion 2yo and 1981 champion 3yo in germany

  • lamelame    1,757 posts
    INVILLINO
    young one with nice pedigree
  • lamelame    1,757 posts
    Mawingo to Stand at Larneuk Stud

    Breednet - Media Release - Thursday, 8 May 2014


    The WFA Group 1 winning
    import Mawingo (Ger) is set to stand at Larneuk Stud in Euroa. 



    Mawingo
    Mawingo
    This imposing entire
    was a Group 1 winner who accumulated over a million dollars in stakes money
    across 3 different countries. Blessed with a combination of speed and stamina, his
    race record saw him effective over a range of distances from 1400 - 2400 metres
    and saw his TIMEFORM Rating place him in the top 12 stallions in the world at
    one point



    His stunning turn of foot was evident from an early age where he was never out
    of a place as a 2 year old. He then followed up as a Group 3 winner as a three
    year old and finished 4th in an exceptionally strong 2011 German
    Derby. In his first campaign in Australia, he won the G1 WFA Doomben Cup over
    2000m and then followed up with a brave 3rd in the G3 Brisbane Cup.



    Mawingo’s impressive sprint versatility was highlighted in the G1 C.F Orr
    Stakes over 1400 metres where he was extremely unlucky in running second to All
    Too Hard. In the words of jockey Craig Williams…"He showed amazing speed and
    with any luck at all, should have won”.



    Mawingo then moved to Singapore where he further developed his International
    profile and ran third behind Military Attack in what TIMEFORM says was
    Singapore’s "best ever” Group 1 International Cup. He raced on in Singapore
    with another victory before having to be retired on the eve of the G1 Raffles
    Cup where he was a pronounced favourite.



    Mawingo’s pedigree is littered with success stories. He is by Tertullian (USA),
    a son of Miswaki and Group winner over
    1400 metres who is building an incredible record in Europe. His dam Montfleur is
    by Sadler’s Wells and comes from an equally impressive family of listed winners
    from all around the world. 




    It’s a Group 1 winning combination of pedigree,
    versatility and looks, combined with an invaluable International and Asian
    profile, that make him incredible value for only $5,500 including GST.
  • lamelame    1,757 posts
    Again , taking notice now ???

    Thoroly_Bread, Legless likes this post.

  • goosegoose    1,638 posts
    Trouble is in Australia if these stallions cant produce at least 3 yr old milers they wont be commercial here got to be some doubt the sons of Monsun will do that hope they can.
  • lamelame    1,757 posts
    edited November 2014
    surama is more so the key ;) ticino is another German influencial line but not as much as the first
    Another major part that everyone has forgotten and as your post suggests is lack of speed. Hard to comprehend but stamina is speed ,that's half the problem today is we've breed to speed for so long that you look at a mares page and 9-10 over 3 generations the winning distance gets shorter.
    Stamina is speed and the key to the future ;)
  • DaleDale    1,346 posts
    i will be in germany in two weeks. a visit to fahrhof stud up north and then a catch up with friends down baden way. any orders? would be interesting to see what their sprinters look like.

    lame likes this post.

  • IntoItIntoIt    659 posts
    Lucky you. Maybe you should liase with Damien...might appreciate a foot in the door.
  • DaleDale    1,346 posts
    no

    SPUDLEY likes this post.

  • lamelame    1,757 posts
    They make good beer too :) enjoy your trip dale
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