Nikolic involved in Race Probe .......Oops

SHOVHOG · May 2015

Haha good riddance to on course bookies. They should have been gone years ago. They will die off with that generation of has beens that can't adapt. Adapt or Die simple.

runyon · May 2015

Have to agree.On course bookies will go the way of the dodo bird or become like an attraction at the zoo. Parents should take their kids out to see them in their natural habitat before they become extinct. Maybe they should start up a Save the Bookie Fund. :D

Aquanita · May 2015

SHOVHOG said:
Haha good riddance to on course bookies. They should have been gone years ago. They will die off with that generation of has beens that can't adapt. Adapt or Die simple.

In all fairness and I am certain that Diva will agree the Betting Regulations under which on course bookmakers operated and in some cases are still operating made it impossible for them to adapt and meet a changing market.

Probably little point in adding further to this debate as in the eyes of most punters bookies are a scourge and the mortal enemy and accordingly will receive little of no sympathy.

RIO · May 2015

on board with you Aquinita, specific to what I know about the WA situation but am sure it is applied similarly around the country..The local bookies have been hog tied and put on a pit skewer in relation to how they can offer bet types, but all the public see is a stand with a price and few blokes from a bygone era, that have no relevance to how they want to do their bidding.

RWWA with the help of PR have slowly and methodically strangled the local industry and in the past 4 or 5 years just left them floundering and uncompetitive whilst the corporates rape and pillage our product...but also agree you just have to let it go now.. Way too much damage has already been done. Although I'd love to see RWWA - its really RGL, but saying it's RWWA's fault feels better - allow bookies to take bets when they are not on course.. How long since you've seen a Betfair window at Pinjarra on a Wednesday?

TheDiva · May 2015

back on the topic... its nikolic's girlfriends Betfair account at the centre of this....

https://www.punters.com.au/news/Banned-jockey-eyeing-off-return_136693/

bookielover · May 2015

My post concerned FM's assertion that "bookmaking was a license to print to money". It is a misconception that most punters and people who have never been intimately involved in the bookmaking side of racing had, and some still have, about bookies.

If anyone has bothered to read my posts, I am on record many times as saying that the future of bookmakers is parlous.

Just last week, I posted on this site the number of bookies in Queensland which has fallen in the last two years to a record low. W.A. aren't much better. S.A have only 4 bookies working their City meeting on a Saturday at Morphetville.

I have given reasons as to why on-course bookies are an endangered species, reasons of which most, if not all of you are aware.

The younger generation don't care because their parents never took them to the races. I need look no further than my own 4 kids ranging in age from 40 down to 30. None of them punt, none are interested in the races, and if there was no bookmaker on track anywhere in Australia, it would mean absolutely nothing to them.

The difference between them and Shovhog is, that if I was to inform them that there were no more bookies on track, they wouldn't laugh about it, or make stupid demeaning comments like those made by Shovhog which reflect terribly on Shovhog's lack of humanity.

Rather they would feel sorry that good people have lost their business, and their employees are out of work.

Bookies are human beings trying to make an honest living just like you Shovhog and the majority of people in this great Country.

You then demean and insult those, in your words, "generation of has beens".

It was that generation of has beens who built this Country, and fought in wars so that you would have the freedom to make stupid unintelligent statements like the one in your post.

By all means, if it makes you happy to gloat over the impending demise of bookmakers, that's up to you.

But leave former generations who find it difficult to adapt to a whole lot of things in this age of technology out of it.

One day, Shovhog, if you live long enough, you will become one of them.

therealkramer · May 2015

The Diva said:
back on the topic... its nikolic's girlfriends Betfair account at the centre of this....

https://www.punters.com.au/news/Banned-jockey-eyeing-off-return_136693/

It always is. Kathy O'Hara & Blake Shinn's mum were running errands for him because as we all know jockeys aren't allowed to bet =))

therealkramer · May 2015

@bookielover-if there is a gap in any market someone will step in to fill that demand and bookmaking is no different.

paraletic · May 2015

If he thinks he is getting his licence back he is crackers in the brain. He may need to move interstate or overseas.

SHOVHOG · May 2015

I have been crying all night over the demise of on course bookmakers. I'm getting the herald sun delivered everyday , listening to the wireless and just about to head to the cinemas to watch Casablanca.

SuperSnoop · May 2015

SHOVHOG said:
I have been crying all night over the demise of on course bookmakers. I'm getting the herald sun delivered everyday , listening to the wireless and just about to head to the cinemas to watch Casablanca.

just tip us a few certainties that run down the track will you and stop banging on about bookmakers.

then again, you could go in the competition?

TheDiva · May 2015

Jason Warren charged:

http://www.racing.com/news/2015-05-06/warren-charged-nikolic-to-be-questioned

therealkramer · May 2015

@SHOVHOG...I still get the weekend paper delivered. Same goes with the weekend Sportsman-even if I do use online form sources, I can't shake the habit or convenience of a hard copy form guide-printing one out doesn't count either...100 pages? **** that!

SHOVHOG · May 2015

I've always loved the sportsman TRK ! I'm on a bit of a break from racing. Only interest in 1 horse and maybe 3 or 4 bets a week. Hopefully will get the passion back before spring but I doubt it.

bookielover · May 2015

TRK, if Shovhog had his way, you would be consigned to the dustbin of history. :-S

On the one hand, you are correct, TRK, that if there were absolutely no on track bookies tomorrow, punters would find a way to get set.

The fact is, the mugs and losers, already have done so. They make up 100% of the clientele of the Corporates.

There will be two "sufferers" if I may use that term, if on course bookies disappeared.

Firstly, smart punters who are barred by the Corps. Even though I know of one leading Sydney punter who has been cut back with his bets, he can still get set with the bookies to win at least 50 grand which isn't too bad, because he's pretty deadly. Also, as far as I am aware, there have been no restrictions placed on another of Sydney's leading punters, with their bookies.Neither of these two can get set with the Corps, and as soon as they try using bowlers, the Corps have a happy knack of finding out.

Punta advertise that in Perth, they don't bar anyone. Yes, I wouldn't imagine that they would not bet you to win 50 grand in one bet, but they will set punters for a sizable amount, an amount that the Corps would never set you, unless you were a confirmed loser. The last time I heard about him, Peter Bartlett was still giving punters a decent bet, and was doing so, when I was there in March last year.

In Queensland, Lindsay Gallagher is still letting punters on to win 20 grand.

In Melbourne, well, we don't have any large locally made punters that I know of, and the Sydney boys bet in the Melbourne ring through commission agents. Generally they will bet punters to win the 5 grand they are compelled to bet( in the case of rails bookies, it's 3 thousand in the paddock) during Winter and ordinary meetings, but they will bet clients more, and some will bet punters to win up to half a million, during the Spring carnival. And they don't bar the Sean Bartholomews or Stephen Fletchers of Australian punting from getting on during that time. Those two may not get set for all they want, but will still get on for sizable 6 figure amounts.

Pro punters can still get set for reasonable amounts on track, but have no hope getting on with the Corps.

If the on course bookies disappear, then I suppose Betfair will take over as the only place where the pro punter can do business. What will happen then, is that the Betfair Comm, which is currently 6.5% with discounts depending on your turnover and other considerations, will more than likely go up and up until Betfair no longer becomes a viable alternative for punters.

The second "sufferer", will be Australian racetracks.

Attendances at non-carnival times and in some instances at some bigger meetings are parlous.

I reported a couple of weeks ago that a bookie mate of mine counted 7 punters in the ring before the 5th. race at Flemington. While it is true that most people went into the grandstand to get out of the elements, a bookie in the Hill Stand that I spoke to, told me that his T/O was down 38% on last year.

If there are 300 people at Belmont tomorrow, and I have no idea what the attendance will be, how many would be there if there were no bookies at all. Hardly anyone goes with bookies on course, so if you are one of those, like me, who will drive to Bunbury when I'm visiting Perth so I can bet with a bookie, would you still go if there was no bookie working there. I wouldn't.

According to the Best Bookies site on Wednesday, there was no member of BB working at Pinjarra. It's not that far to go there, but I would still call the club to find out if they actually had at least one bookie on track before going, and I know that here in Melbourne, many of my mates would never go if they didn't have the option of a bookie to bet with.

So, whatever the attendances are now, the tracks would become a complete morgue without bookies.

As tough as the going is for bookies at this time, and in particular over the next 4 months of Winter, I don't know of any bookie here in Melbourne contemplating resignation other than because the person is very old, or due to ill-health.

The powers that be, have understood that it's tough for bookies here in Melbourne over the next 4 months, so they brought in a rule that bookies only have to work 75% of the meetings at each track in order to be allowed to work during Carnival times.They realise that 20 rails bookies at Flemington during this time, is nonviable, so they have reduced that figure to 8 bookies having to work on the rails, at Flemington.

At other tracks there are ballots for positions and only as many bookies as are needed to accommodate the punters that get there, are allowed to work. So you will find that many bookies who don't get the chance to work at meetings,have second jobs or businesses.

There is no doubt in my mind, that there should be no restrictions on the types of bets that bookies can offer whatsoever. I note that one of our Punters Club members wants to take a quaddie with Punta and asks the question if Punta bets on quaddies. I don't believe they do, but if they wanted to do so, why should there be a restraint of trade on them by not allowing them to offer this or any other bet form.

Anyway, as my old man used to say, it's a disease curable by death only. So for many of today's bookies, unless they are banned from racecourses, I sincerely hope that that will be the only reason that they disappear from the track.

therealkramer · May 2015

SHOVHOG said:
I've always loved the sportsman TRK ! I'm on a bit of a break from racing. Only interest in 1 horse and maybe 3 or 4 bets a week. Hopefully will get the passion back before spring but I doubt it.

The Royal Ascot carnival in June should be pretty good with Brazen Beau, Able Friend, California Chrome, Solow and others...perhaps even iron horse Cirrus Des Aigles?

therealkramer · May 2015

@bookielover...I meant that if there is a perceived void, someone will fill that IF they see an opportunity to make money. With the advent of Betfair there are probably a few punters out there that think they could make a go of bookmaking..I know Sean Bartholomew tried for a while..... X_X

bookielover · May 2015

Diva,

I know that the Stewards here in Melbourne, monitor betting activities on Betfair.

It is frankly damning of them, that a red flag only appeared when they knew that Danny's girlfriend was one of the Betfair account holders who laid the horse to lose heavily.

I know that the hatred between the Stewards, Bailey in particular, towards Nikolic, is unabated. I have no time for Danny at all. He did a terrible thing to a very close friend of mine, and I hope Karma gets him. It has done a reasonable job so far, and I hope he never gets back to riding.

But the fact that this is the first revealed case that the Stewards are looking into, since the case at Cranbourne involving Nikolic and Mark Zhara, is a very poor reflection on our Stewards and their lack of desire to investigate and prosecute those who continue to manipulate Betfair for their own use and to the detriment of all decent punters.

therealkramer · May 2015

@bookielover I would go for good racing but in the example I posted on here about being ripped off by a bookie I had $2k @ 6-4. Now I wanted to watch the race live so I left for the grandstand two minutes before the jump. By that time the horse had got out to 7-4. Not a huge difference, but $400 all the same. Bookmaking apps allow you to sit in the grandstand and not worry about missing the race live. Bookmakers need to adapt and embrace technology whether that means they have an online presence only without being at the track. Surely the overheads make a difference to their bottom line?

...yes I know the diehards will watch in the ring-I have done it countless times but the live action is part of what makes a trip to the track appealing.

bookielover · May 2015

TRK, There aren't too many places for the bigger punters to make money. On course bookies and Betfair appear, at this point in time, to be last bastions left.

As far as Sean bookmaking, he tried to be a big bookie in Sydney, but the pressure got to him, and I heard from a relative who is a rails bookie there, that he got carved up. He then turned to the punt with his brother Kingsley who is a very clever man.

He does have bad days, but is well in front since he switched to the punt. He bought a house for $6 million a few years ago.

I can't think of a bookie who has bought a $6 million house in the last few years, purely from the proceeds of bookmaking.

therealkramer · May 2015

@bookielover- Didn't Robbie Waterhouse describe him as "a machine"? a while back?

bookielover · May 2015

TRK,

Until such times as there are absolutely no restrictions on the way licensed on-track bookies can operate, they will be at a tremendous disadvantage to the Corps and the TAB.

bookielover · May 2015

TRK,

Yes, he did. But my info is that Robbie and Sean are VERY VERY close.

;) ;)

therealkramer · May 2015

@bookielover I've been saying it for some time-a national tote would be a game changer. :-B

therealkramer · May 2015

bookielover said:
TRK,

Yes, he did. But my info is that Robbie and Sean are VERY VERY close.
;) ;)

Sounds like the friendship could not be any More Joyous? ;))

therealkramer · May 2015

Gordon Gekko sums it up best at 1:56 :-\"

bookielover · May 2015

Mightn't be as good as what you think, TRK.

% takeouts are bound to go up. No offence mate, but you think like many others that bigger is better, A pro punter who made a stack out of the tote in the good old days when they used to have a private room for the pros to bet on the tote and the Off course Tote shut 40 minutes before a race, but on course it was 15 minutes, told me that he actually worked out that you get far better dividends overall betting into a smaller pool.

I never believed it, until I started taking quaddies through Betfair on the Unibet tote. A facility they no longer offer.

The quaddie dividend on Unibet was bigger than Supertab and NSW on at least 80% of the time, even though the quaddie in Victoria on Melbourne, for example would hold $1.4 million, and on Unibet, $375,000

It only took one roughie in a leg, to ensure a bigger dividend on Unibet. And by a roughie, I mean a horse at $10.00, not exactly a massive outsider.

If you are interested TRK, keep an eye on it over the next few months on a Saturday, and you will see what I mean.

Oh, and one more thing, what do you mean, "only $400.00".

You are a disgrace copping 2% less than the right price. I'd never get you to put money on for me with an attitude like that. Neither would Zelko!!

:)) :))

bookielover · May 2015

No Comment on the comment, TRK :D

therealkramer · May 2015

bookielover said:
Mightn't be as good as what you think, TRK.

% takeouts are bound to go up. No offence mate, but you think like many others that bigger is better, A pro punter who made a stack out of the tote in the good old days when they used to have a private room for the pros to bet on the tote and the Off course Tote shut 40 minutes before a race, but on course it was 15 minutes, told me that he actually worked out that you get far better dividends overall betting into a smaller pool.

I never believed it, until I started taking quaddies through Betfair on the Unibet tote. A facility they no longer offer.

The quaddie dividend on Unibet was bigger than Supertab and NSW on at least 80% of the time, even though the quaddie in Victoria on Melbourne, for example would hold $1.4 million, and on Unibet, $375,000

It only took one roughie in a leg, to ensure a bigger dividend on Unibet. And by a roughie, I mean a horse at $10.00, not exactly a massive outsider.

If you are interested TRK, keep an eye on it over the next few months on a Saturday, and you will see what I mean.

Oh, and one more thing, what do you mean, "only $400.00".

You are a disgrace copping 2% less than the right price. I'd never get you to put money on for me with an attitude like that. Neither would Zelko!!
:)) :))

That's the whole point though, having $2k on a horse at the track, you want to see it live and not on a big screen. I am actually far more impatient betting online than I ever was at the track. I almost always got the best price that was offered. Unless one bookie is a lone wolf and offering overs, you know if 3-4 bookies are offering a longer price, the others will follow. Of course you had to fight off fellow punters to get set back in those times =((

TheDiva · May 2015

http://www.news.com.au/sport/superracing/jason-warren-fuming-over-baron-archer-bet-probe/story-fndprusm-1227348581380

G'day Punter!

In this Discussion

Who's Online

Nikolic involved in Race Probe .......Oops

Comments