Pacing Cup Friday

JayJay · January 2017

Just following up on the handicapping and the fronts for Country Racing. Note the class and the times ..this from 1953. By the way, no Johnson horses engaged as WF Johnson and MR Johnson were appealing a 12 month disqualification for pulling one up ---a favorite that ran 8th. I

Following are the Race Results for the

Wagin Trotting Club's meeting

January 15th 1953

Race 1 MAIDEN MILE (scr. mark 2.47).

RYNETTE SHEIK 84 (Arm

strong) 2.22 9/2 1; CROSS LODE

84 (Becker) 2.22' 8/1 2; DAR

RIEL LADY 84 (Hocking) 2.23½

7/4 on fav. 3.

Race 2 CHRISTIE HDCP. (scr. mark

2.36). 1¾m.: ARABIAN ORO

scr. (Riseborough) 2.17½ evens

fav. 1: LUCKY SIGN secr. (Ches

ter) 2.201/ 7/1

Race 3 NEW YEAR HDCP. (scr. mark

2.32), 1%m.: STYLISH GLEN 60

(Ball) 2.18 8/1 1; MONA'S GOLD

12 (A. M. Ward) 2.20½ 2/1 on

fav. 2; RIGHT CROSS 24 (A. W.

Ward) 2.21½ 6/4 3.

Race 4 POLLARD HDCP. (scr. mark

2.40). 1¼m.: ROBERT'S QUEEN

scr. (Slater) 2.29% 15/1 1; RYN

ETTE SHEIK 48 (Armstrong)

2.27 3/1 2; LITIGATION scr.

tBell) 2.31 5/1 3.

Race 5 WALLIS IIDCP. (scr. mark

2.36), 1½m.: ARABIAN ORO 24

(Riseborough) 2.19½ evens fav.

1; LUCKY SIGN scr. (Chester)

2.21 6/1 2: SNOW MAIDEN 24

(A. W. Ward) 2.20 3/1 3.

Race 6 FLYING MILE (scr. mark 2.32;:

RIGHT CROSB 24 (A. W. Ward)

2.19 7/4 on fav. 1: MONA'S

GOLD 12 (A. M. Ward) 2.20%

5/1 2; NEWYARD 36 (Bartram)

3.19!½ 15/1 3.

curmudgeon · January 2017

NYE at GP attracted large crowds but inevitably that brought management of under age alcohol consumption issues. I believe the fines levied under the punitive provisions of the Liquor and Gaming Act for breaches of the Act and the cost of security agency personnel who ultimately were less than totally effective in their role despite their best efforts (aged drinkers buying drinks and surreptitiously giving them to under aged patrons is an extremely difficult practise to control in large crowds but relatively easy to identify in terms of licence breach) made the event only a break even occasion in terms of viability.

An alcohol free evening would seem to be the only option if the event was reintroduced.

JayJay · January 2017

BL thanks but in reality, no chance. First, not well known, 2nd too old ....tell me an organisation that employs anyone over 60 these days....you have to have an honors degree in spin, no actual experience, an I phone glued to your ear, be politically correct, be able to address KPI's, Strategic outcomes and address selection criteria, be socially connected....and that's just to get an interview.....and finally, no actual hands on experience but the ability to think "new" and ignore past successful strategies....not a snow flakes chance in hell. But it's a nice thought for a retired broken down old hack like myself. Content to potter with the history and preserve some of it before the house comes tumbling down....but theme based focussed programming of the major carnival and mini carnivals and engae with your community....feed them and feed off them, it ain't Rocket science. Any time you make a suggestion, they get all defensive and tell you that your talking out of turn, very much a siege mentality.

savethegame · January 2017

The johnsons horse they got time with, name will come to me, had to be sold at public auction at midland yards,he went from stable to stable ,trying to get him to go as he had a really good record, but to no avail they got him back for 50quid two-three years down the track won a few more than he broke down, his secret was his offside hopple had to six inches long than his nearside unless he was geared up like that he wasn''t worth a crumpet. Maybe malvin or Burkett owned it....J.J been through 1953 metro results no mention Kenny Stanley... Unless sonny was refering 1953 as his birth year.....

Ridersonthestorm33 · January 2017

JJ Bonny Sweetapple was a well known owner in the 80s...who was his number one trainer ? Was it Lyle Lindau ?

Ridersonthestorm33 · January 2017

Also talking of Lyle Lindau...how good was Roscott ? It's one from the early memory...along with one slightly afterwards Captain Forlese ( my very favourite ).

JayJay · January 2017

@savethegame, the horse was Mintalla...first run in town....coming of 4 straight wins at Kalgoorlie....started 6/4 favourite and the stewrds didn't muck around with fancy words. They were charged with "not trying" and got 12 months. No action was taken against owner R.W.Johnson but Mr Gallop wanted to have "discussions" with him when next he returned from Mt Kokeby where he was preparing 10 other horses to send to the Hamilton Hill stables where 24 horses were in work, including 3 interdominion candidates.

Riders, Bonny owned an awful lot of horses with Bob Smith (and Charleson I think) and they were spread about ...Jimmy had a lot of them, Phil in early days and others. We covered Roscott in te earlier top 50 pacers thread and also Captain Forlese for Sparksy Treasure. Roscott was a top horse, owned by Richie Palmer ....funny isn't it, I don't even have to look up his breeding, its cemented in my memory ...by Dignus from Woorara......I'd bet money on it....now, where are the ute keys, I have to go to town ....don't remember important things damn it.

Ridersonthestorm33 · January 2017

Wonder if the Treasure family involved in horses would be related to the well known South Fremantle football Treasures.

JayJay · January 2017

Don't know Riders...Sparksie's mob stem from former WATA President Bob Treasure and brother Eric (who owned Michelle Emma)......Cannington based....whereas I think the footballer Treasure at Souths was Frank and he was a CBC lad born and bred in Freo...just guessing a bit.

savethegame · January 2017

Thanks j.j. re mintalla the storys were told to me as a lad,about that horse. You had to lodge your hopple measurments at the track they first raced at?.Because when they got time,His hopple measurments conveniently or just got misplaced regards anyone finding out the six inches difference in length.From n/side to o/side..... Jay.Jay would appreciate any information re. horse tugman a horse my mother won a lot,of money on....To best of my memory heres what happen.My father few months earlier was told tugman was out of the box and he would win heat of derby first up then final.Father and mother started putting there spare quids away for tugman....Dad was to receive a telegram on the day which was to say meet the boat meaning everything was right with horse ...Came the sat the old man spent all day waiting, to frighten to go anywhere just in case he missed it, telegrams were delivered up till 6.pm.Mother had to go to work at 6, as she handle the money it went with her she proceed to get it all on at the s.p.shops without the telegram.Father goes to mums work place tells her no telegram no bet. As he found out later Three days before horse had hit his leg only started with intent to try and qualify for final 4th or 5th if he didn't feel his leg was the objective, hence no telegram .Mum didn''t have heart the tell the old man all the money was on.Old man went away to listen to it thinking nothings on.Mum said two hours later he came through door green as.It had won and paid huge divvy.

sonny · January 2017

Hi Jay,Are these Treasures related to Roy Treasure who had Junction Road in Sydney back in the 80's.Thanks

VillageKid · January 2017

I think the Treasure's JJ has referred to (re Michelle Emma) were from Cannington and from memory some worked in the dairy industry?

JayJay · January 2017

Yes, dairy and stock transport......the trucking yard was on Nicholson Road, just down from where the Cannington Cop Shop is on the corner of Albany Highway. Don't know about any connection to Roy but for some nagging reason, Roy Treasure rings a bell. Long time ago.....Bob was WATA President in 1978....got a picture on the wall of him presenting the Mares Classic Trophy to me post race.....were roll neck sweaters worn under a coat really that trendy? (Me, not him). What a fashionista I was ...NOT bahaha!!!
I think they still operate as R.E and O Treasure and Sons ("O" was Ollie, his wife) and they relocated out Rowley Road way

JayJay · January 2017

@savethegame Crikey, it's a small world and a particularly hard one when they re-use the name.....There was a Tugman by New Morris foaled in 1980 and a Tugman foaled in 1960 by Radiant Echo, and that is the horse you are talking about. Unknown to me, he is pretty closely related to a couple really close to home, so to speak.....really close. Unbelievable coincidence.

Out of Meteor Girl, his grand dam is Ida May, a sister to May Minton, the dam of Minton Hall and Pensive Paul. The family is known as the Boobie family....Boobies dam is unknown ....simply listed as "Dam of Boobie", foaling date unknown but by Delevan Wilkes. It is a very rare thing to find horses that trace back to Boobie. May Minton was owned buy by Mr Pelham at Wongan Hills and he sent both Minton Hall and Pensive Paul down to Jack. Like Tugman, Minton Hall won a heat of the Derby...in 1961. Tugman won his heat of the Derby in 1964 and ran 3rd in the final behind Rising Scott and Good Grattan. He didn't win any other "feature races" as such but he could run alright. His LTR was 2.8.75 (I dunno how to type three quarters) Meteor Girl was 20 years old when Tugman was foaled. That's a quick search for you....do you know who owned/trained him?

Will tell you a story about another horse that raced in uneven hopple length...most of the time....pretty good horse to. But another day.

bookielover · January 2017

curmudgeon said:
NYE at GP attracted large crowds but inevitably that brought management of under age alcohol consumption issues. I believe the fines levied under the punitive provisions of the Liquor and Gaming Act for breaches of the Act and the cost of security agency personnel who ultimately were less than totally effective in their role despite their best efforts (aged drinkers buying drinks and surreptitiously giving them to under aged patrons is an extremely difficult practise to control in large crowds but relatively easy to identify in terms of licence breach) made the event only a break even occasion in terms of viability.
An alcohol free evening would seem to be the only option if the event was reintroduced.

I acknowledge all the problems, Curmudgeon, but those probs existed because it was a non ticketed event.

Ipswich Turf Club in Queensland who run their biggest meeting, the Ipswich Cup and the Eyeliner Stakes in July, made their big day an all ticketed event a few years ago. Not only that, they restricted the ticket sales to over 18's only, no children allowed.

And that is exactly what happens. No kids can get in. And they get around 10,000 attending a hugely successful day.

Why can't GP do the same? It's not that difficult is it?

That would completely alleviate under age drinking. If they wanted to, they could also make it a no alcohol policy, but there would really be no reason to do that.

By the way, Ippy Turf Club have got security at the entrances and if you have aticket but look young, you better have your ID on you, or you won't get in.

bookielover · January 2017

JayJay said:
BL thanks but in reality, no chance. First, not well known, 2nd too old ....tell me an organisation that employs anyone over 60 these days....you have to have an honors degree in spin, no actual experience, an I phone glued to your ear, be politically correct, be able to address KPI's, Strategic outcomes and address selection criteria, be socially connected....and that's just to get an interview.....and finally, no actual hands on experience but the ability to think "new" and ignore past successful strategies....not a snow flakes chance in hell. But it's a nice thought for a retired broken down old hack like myself. Content to potter with the history and preserve some of it before the house comes tumbling down....but theme based focussed programming of the major carnival and mini carnivals and engae with your community....feed them and feed off them, it ain't Rocket science. Any time you make a suggestion, they get all defensive and tell you that your talking out of turn, very much a siege mentality.

Agree with your sentiments completely, JJ.

That post, is the reason why GP is going backwards.

curmudgeon · January 2017

bookielover said:

curmudgeon said:
NYE at GP attracted large crowds but inevitably that brought management of under age alcohol consumption issues. I believe the fines levied under the punitive provisions of the Liquor and Gaming Act for breaches of the Act and the cost of security agency personnel who ultimately were less than totally effective in their role despite their best efforts (aged drinkers buying drinks and surreptitiously giving them to under aged patrons is an extremely difficult practise to control in large crowds but relatively easy to identify in terms of licence breach) made the event only a break even occasion in terms of viability.
An alcohol free evening would seem to be the only option if the event was reintroduced.

I acknowledge all the problems, Curmudgeon, but those probs existed because it was a non ticketed event.

Ipswich Turf Club in Queensland who run their biggest meeting, the Ipswich Cup and the Eyeliner Stakes in July, made their big day an all ticketed event a few years ago. Not only that, they restricted the ticket sales to over 18's only, no children allowed.

And that is exactly what happens. No kids can get in. And they get around 10,000 attending a hugely successful day.

Why can't GP do the same? It's not that difficult is it?

That would completely alleviate under age drinking. If they wanted to, they could also make it a no alcohol policy, but there would really be no reason to do that.

By the way, Ippy Turf Club have got security at the entrances and if you have aticket but look young, you better have your ID on you, or you won't get in.

I get your drift but it is a moot area for me.....I reckon I have been blowing zzz's at midnight on NYE for well over a decade now and that will continue uninterrupted
~O)

savethegame · January 2017

Thanks again jay jay....Re tugman ;With that information you posted was able track the actual race down .22 feb 1964 .Write up mentions tugman was backed at 100/1 and firmed to 66s. Owe you one .Now to nail bay reward.

JayJay · January 2017

Back to the old handicaps......just doing some research...Super Junior in fact...on October 24th, 1953, he started in the 600 pound FFA at Gloucester Park for horse handicapped 2.11 or better, thats how tight the front was 2.11...I never realised it got that tight, that is like a M11 or better....and it was over nominated. For interest, it was won by Tennesee Sky (Frank Kersley at 2/7 by 3 inches from Red Hussar Fred Kersley) and Petty Officer (RonPorter) Bintravis ran 4th and Super Junior (P.Coulson) ran 5th. Dallingwood (Ray Sweetman) ran 14th and last.
Other winners that night were Race 1 The Qualie (425 pound) general Robert (Bill Foy), Race 2 2.21 and better Loma Oro (Max Johnson), Race 3 2.17 and better Special Comet( Les Turvey) Race 4 2.21 and better Mossvale Boy (Ian Garrow), Race 5 the FFA, Race 6 2.21 and Better Davids Reward (Harold Richter for owner Norm Duncan) from 36 behind after galloping out and losing 60 yards "showing speed like never seen before at GP" wrote "Lexington" in the west Australian and race 7 2.16 and better went to On Trust (Frank Kersley) from 24 behind to advance to a 2.13 mark.
On the same weekend @Ridersonthestorm33 and @savethegame , there was a gymkhana held at Armadale...3 races...Fred Hough, Jack Flynn etc driving and Radiant Echo (B.Mouritz), sire of your horse Tugman ran 3rd in the 2nd race.

VillageKid · January 2017

I wonder if the winning driver of Race 3 in Les Turvey is related to Nathan?

matt · January 2017

Yes Nathan is Related to Les Turvey. Les Turvey's Nephew was the Late Neville Turvey, Nathans Father. Les Turvey is actually my Great Grandfather

JayJay · January 2017

Yes, pretty sure he is...I think Des Turvey also related. Further intrigue @savethegame over Tugman. On December 7th 1953, his dam Meteor Girl ran 2nd (R.G.Kersley) in a 2.21 and better race to none other than Victor David...who was by Robert Minton out of Boobie.....(which makes him a full brother to May Minton, dam of Minton Hall) ....and (hope I'm not losing you here) that means Meteor Girl, out of Ida May out of Boobie, was beaten by her uncle. So, simplifying it Boobie produced Ida May and Victor David , Ida May produced Meteor Girl (who then went on to produce Tugman) and Victor David beats Meteor Girl into 2nd. Uncle beats niece. Trivia, absolute trivia I know but it intrigues me even if it bores the rest of the population to death.

JayJay · January 2017

Matt, Special Comet was a pretty good horse for Les Turvey....he paid 500 pounds for him and after that win on October 24th 1953, he had banked 890 pounds.....and he went on to win two more city races in November/December when the stakes were about 4 to 500 pounds per race. So in perspective, they paid in modern day terms about $18,000 for him and were handsomely rewarded...and according to the report in the paper, he only had 3 good legs!!!

JayJay · January 2017

@savethegame When in trouble, Alan Parker to the rescue....firstly Bay Reward....won 3 races, all the first at Bunbury on Dec 2 1978 , then 2 more at Pinjarra, the last on Dec 28 1978 , for driver Trevor Warwick, trainer Alan Robert Hall (not to be confused with today's Narrogin based Alan R Hall) and owner G.R.Davis.
Tugman was a very good horse ....won 8 city races for trainer driver R.W (Bob) Johnson......heat of the Derby, 3rd in the Derby Final, heat of the Christmas Gift and the Easter Handicap and a 2nd in the Navy Cup.Sire Radiant Echo also a very good fast class horse with a 4th in the Fremantle Cup, a 2nd in the August Cup and a 12th in the 1957 Pacing Cup.

savethegame · January 2017

Alan parker; never ever meet the man,but gee notice his input regarding the harness industry,bordering on unbelievable seems like forever.... Maybe incorrect heard once he wasn't consider for a position which the majority thought he was a monty ?.The fella that got the job,his knowledge amount you could put on the back of a stamp.Was the talk......Bay reward story has been solved on most fronts with alans help....It was the last race at bunbury alan robert hall did drive it that night 2/12/78...Standing back from the betting ring with two friends,old fella unknown to us in the strongest terms told us to have every cent we had on us on bay reward as it was unbeatable...Buy the time we got in the ring,everyone was trying to get on bay reward in a frenzy.It bolted in couldn,t find margin, or betting flucs,see it won gift heat 16/12/78 with t.b.warwick &final 28/12/78,it was airborne for a month by the look.Put the memory loss down to liptor,nothing to do with amber liquid.

Ridersonthestorm33 · January 2017

Hey guys I'm having huge technical difficulties on this. Can't get through to the forum page to give input so will have to post here. Keeps coming up resource limit has been reached - it's all over the place , and takes ages to get this far. Can eventually read the posts but takes way too long and that's if can get through at all.

JayJay · January 2017

Career Performances Horse Bay Reward


Date	Race Name	Place	DH	Trainer	Driver	Owner	Winner	Club
2 December, 1978		1		A R (Alan Robert) Hall	T B (Trevor) Warwick	G R Davis	BAY REWARD NZ	BUNBURY
18 December, 1978		1		A R (Alan Robert) Hall	T B (Trevor) Warwick	G R Davis	BAY REWARD NZ	PINJARRA
27 December, 1978		1		A R (Alan Robert) Hall	T B (Trevor) Warwick	G R Davis	BAY REWARD NZ	PINJARRA

JayJay · January 2017

Career Performances Horse Bay Reward


Date	Race Name	Place	DH	Trainer	Driver	Owner	Winner	Club
2 December, 1978		1		A R (Alan Robert) Hall	T B (Trevor) Warwick	G R Davis	BAY REWARD NZ	BUNBURY
18 December, 1978		1		A R (Alan Robert) Hall	T B (Trevor) Warwick	G R Davis	BAY REWARD NZ	PINJARRA
27 December, 1978		1		A R (Alan Robert) Hall	T B (Trevor) Warwick	G R Davis	BAY REWARD NZ	PINJARRA

savethegame · January 2017

J.J.no idea how to copy or paste.But the field on the day in front of me.Has no2 bay reward driver. a.r.hall. 2/12/78. Here lies maybe part of the reason for the plunge the change to t.b.warwick at the death knock if he drove it. notice a lot times if the trots are held on Saturday. they have results with sundays date? back then.

savethegame · January 2017

t.b.warwick listed drives for that night were topsy turvy,..lincoln alabar,...and a three year old that turned out a pretty good horse in all bert.

G'day Punter!

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