Good for the Industry?

JayJay · May 2018

Ever since good old George moved on, no one has done too much challenging of anything...yes, times have changed but they are such a bland lot these days, everyone shackled about the consequences of expressing a dissenting view.

DamienWyer · May 2018

http://www.breedingracing.com/news/2018/05/28/bob-peters-invests-1m-in-equine-fertility-company/

$1M for something that sounds outside the rules of breeding racehorses in Australia ? It would be interesting to see what the details on this would be given the Industry opposition to anything artificial in thoroughbred breeding.

thefalcon · May 2018

is artificial insemination on the horizon for thoroughbred horses?

surely something as controversial as that would require international debate..

tony · May 2018

Considering that the High Court ruled only recently against McHugh who wanted to have AI declared OK for the industry I would think it highly unlikely that we could see anything changing in the near future.

sonny · May 2018

Sky Channel commentators are unbearable.

RIO · May 2018

JayJay said:
Ever since good old George moved on, no one has done too much challenging of anything...yes, times have changed but they are such a bland lot these days, everyone shackled about the consequences of expressing a dissenting view.

I'll challenge anyone to continually stand in front of a bunch of public servants and try to justify your opinions, whilst under threat of being kicked out of every racetrack in the state and bringing an end to a lifetime hobby!!!! That's what you risk for having an opinion on any of the 3 codes in this state.

To be held accountable in a investigation due to calling someone a dipshit, as you got a bit excited, is what you are dealing with.

Ask Andrew Carter how these public servants work. Ask the public servants how they treat us, compared to how they treat there own...ie tap recorded trotting investigation recently!!!

Then when you get answers to that question, ask yourself if you really want to go on record with your real opinion???? RWWA have destroyed people, destroyed careers, and damaged many others. And continue doing so. All in the name of regulating the industry....

RWWA are, always have been, and until the TAB is sold, always will be......willing to destroy anyone who challenges them.... Their employees at Racing Radio know that all too well.

therealkramer · May 2018

jum said:
When they say on racing radio " A lot of talk on social media" reckon they are referring to us here on PTT. =)) :-j X_X =)) :-j

:-h

scenic11 · May 2018

From what i see Bob Peters contributes very little to the WA racing industry.
He generates income for himself and spends the bulk of it in the NSW Hunter Valley.

In years gone by he bred to some WA stallions such as Old Spice and kept some of the money in WA but not any more.

RWWA need to act to change the Westspeed rules and maybe put a cap on individual owners number of wins.

If his 4 wins on Saturday were won by separate groups of owners and trainers such as Neville Parnham, Trevor Andrews, David Harrison, Danny Morton, Paul Jordan, Todd Harvey etc then they would be putting much more back into the local breeding by buying more yearlings by local stallions.
Owners like Ron Sayers, Lex and Shirley Piper, Neville and Sue Duncan, Clive Atwell etc are good owners who never stop giving back to the WA industry. They are not parasites.

I for one am getting sick of Bob taking out all the time and giving nothing back and the Westspeed rules are encouraging him to continue to do so.
If he wants to go breed to his fancy pants stallions in NSW we shouldn't have to assist him by providing funding for him through Westspeed.
Enough is enough.

FreoHitman · May 2018

scenic11 said:
From what i see Bob Peters contributes very little to the WA racing industry.
He generates income for himself and spends the bulk of it in the NSW Hunter Valley.

In years gone by he bred to some WA stallions such as Old Spice and kept some of the money in WA but not any more.

RWWA need to act to change the Westspeed rules and maybe put a cap on individual owners number of wins.

If his 4 wins on Saturday were won by separate groups of owners and trainers such as Neville Parnham, Trevor Andrews, David Harrison, Danny Morton, Paul Jordan, Todd Harvey etc then they would be putting much more back into the local breeding by buying more yearlings by local stallions.
Owners like Ron Sayers, Lex and Shirley Piper, Neville and Sue Duncan, Clive Atwell etc are good owners who never stop giving back to the WA industry. They are not parasites.

I for one am getting sick of Bob taking out all the time and giving nothing back and the Westspeed rules are encouraging him to continue to do so.
If he wants to go breed to his fancy pants stallions in NSW we shouldn't have to assist him by providing funding for him through Westspeed.
Enough is enough.

Is that loop hole in the West Speed rules to encourage new blood lines to WA , It is open to everyone I imagine and not a rule exclusively for Uncle Bob. Everyone wants a winner ,but how deep is ones preparation to find one ???

Bob thinks deeper than looking at a catalogue and dreaming and I suppose maybe some of us perhaps don't have the deep pockets to emulate what he does but it does not mean we can't copy his blue print for a long term strategy (on a smaller scale)

RIO · May 2018

We're talking about the other end of the input scale FHM.....We could emulate him if we had the money. But to buy a good mare, either here or over east and then to agist it, over east, to serve it over east and to bring it back as a yearling from east, would cost something like this

Serve $20k

1 year in foal $15k

Foaling down $8k

Vets along the way $6k

18 months, educating and in agistment $20k

Transport back to WA $3k

Breaking and educating in WA $6k

First campaign $12k

TOTAL $90k to track...without the cost of a mare.

The same in WA

Serve $6k

Foaling Down $6k

Vets $4k

Educating $4k

Breaking and Educating $6k

First Campaign $12k

TOTAL $38k

So the difference in cost is massive and the chance of winning any WESTSPEED is massive. The local breeder is on a hiding to nothing. And then are flat out trying to do a cost recovery of the breeding attempt.

This is why most breeders these days are racing their own produce.

A...they cant sell them for what they are worth, as no-one wants to pay $100k for a locally bred horse to maybe take on Bob...so

B they take out Westspeed and race against Bob and take out second tier races, in an attempt to break even and go around the next year.

Now Bob has got to the level where his "not so good" ones can run around on Saturdays and clean up in the second tier, graded races as well..IMO it is not good for the industry

Sorry a bit of a bookie loveresque lengted novel!!!

FreoHitman · May 2018

RIO said:
We're talking about the other end of the input scale FHM.....We could emulate him if we had the money. But to buy a good mare, either here or over east and then to agist it, over east, to serve it over east and to bring it back as a yearling from east, would cost something like this

Serve $20k
1 year in foal $15k
Foaling down $8k
Vets along the way $6k
18 months, educating and in agistment $20k
Transport back to WA $3k
Breaking and educating in WA $6k
First campaign $12k
TOTAL $90k to track...without the cost of a mare.

The same in WA
Serve $6k
Foaling Down $6k
Vets $4k
Educating $4k
Breaking and Educating $6k
First Campaign $12k
TOTAL $38k

So the difference in cost is massive and the chance of winning any WESTSPEED is massive. The local breeder is on a hiding to nothing. And then are flat out trying to do a cost recovery of the breeding attempt.
This is why most breeders these days are racing their own produce.
A...they cant sell them for what they are worth, as no-one wants to pay $100k for a locally bred horse to maybe take on Bob...so
B they take out Westspeed and race against Bob and take out second tier races, in an attempt to break even and go around the next year.

Now Bob has got to the level where his "not so good" ones can run around on Saturdays and clean up in the second tier, graded races as well..IMO it is not good for the industry

Sorry a bit of a bookie loveresque lengted novel!!!

Sounds like a lack of long term planning and the only way to get back off Bob is long term planning, you can not tell me Bobs spends more than everyone else in the industry combined

RIO · May 2018

??? sorry FHM i dont understand that comment....I'm not sure we are even talking about the same things!?!?!?!

Freely admit you've lost me??????

Bucks · May 2018

I think Bob is good for the industry. Would the Premier League or the NBA be as exciting to watch if you removed the top clubs? A lot of the punters on this forum often complain about poor quality race fields, I think bob increases the quality of horses going round in WA making the sport more enjoyable to watch. In my opinion, this has a flow on effect as more trainers look to spend more money (but on fewer horses) for a chance to compete at the top level.

As for Westspeed I think you should only get it if you go to a WA stallion or the mare foals down here in WA. That way you can still go to the stallions over east while still supporting local jobs.

H-BOMBER · May 2018

And the dominance continues in race 1 in another crushing blow for the industry

thefalcon · May 2018

good for the industry? no its not.

its against the spirit of racing that an individual has such a domination. I don't think even godolphin or the inghams and connell in their day have/had such influence.

for an individual to have the unlimited funds to breed and race such a collection of world class thoroughbreds in the relative "backwater" of Perth is, in old aussie idiom "not fair".

the horses he races here are worthy of Melbourne and Sydney careers, so why does he not have a satellite stable in each city?

there is nothing we can do about it..except close the westspeed loophole..but they wouldn't do that would they?

paraletic · May 2018

paraletic said:
There is one loophole, race your horses at 2. Bob leaves them races alone ;)

spoke too soon 8-}

Tivers · May 2018

thefalcon said:
good for the industry? no its not.
its against the spirit of racing that an individual has such a domination. I don't think even godolphin or the inghams and connell in their day have/had such influence.
for an individual to have the unlimited funds to breed and race such a collection of world class thoroughbreds in the relative "backwater" of Perth is, in old aussie idiom "not fair".
the horses he races here are worthy of Melbourne and Sydney careers, so why does he not have a satellite stable in each city?
there is nothing we can do about it..except close the westspeed loophole..but they wouldn't do that would they?

so you’re happy to sink me, and others like me, just to get at bob.
Who you really hurting more there ?

You can’t breed just WA every year - we don’t have the industry size / gene pool for it.
Would collapse upon itself.

RIO · May 2018

Well RWWA have been happy to let the mum and dad breeders sink, so if it is not medium sized breeders like yourself who else is going to be the next target to support the industry??

IMO there is no need to target anyone. Bob didn't get here in a few years. Its been a lifetime journey. So changes only need to be minor, subtle. Any wholesale change of Westspeed will have far too great an impact on those who are still in the industry and trying to keep up with the top end of town.

And the payments for winning should not be wound back...The smaller end of town who use the local industry, need a leg up for doing that. Whether it is by choice or economic reality they need to be rewarded for supporting the local breeding industry.

scenic11 · May 2018

Tivers said:

so you’re happy to sink me, and others like me, just to get at bob.
Who you really hurting more there ?

You can’t breed just WA every year - we don’t have the industry size / gene pool for it.
Would collapse upon itself.

That's why there needs to be a cap on the number of westspeed collects by single owners such as Peters (esp by non WA stallions)

Other owners should not be penalised, eg should be exemptions for syndicate members and small % owners.
Such as if you have 10% of 10 horses and they all win one westspeed race that counts as 1 westspeed win not 10.
I am positive some changes could be made so as to not penalise other breeders and owners as they need to continue to be encouraged to participate.

Also should be unlimited Westspeed collects by WA stallions and Westspeed Platinum helps to breed local also.
Would it be unrealistic to hope that one day Bob might buy a good stallion and bring it to WA?
Now that would be good for the industry and he is one of the few with the $$$$ to do it.

therealkramer · May 2018

@thefalcon. Have you not seen Waller with half the field in Group 1s here in Sydney? We still race for $100k every Saturday

RIO · May 2018

H-BOMBER said:
And the dominance continues in race 1 in another crushing blow for the industry

how is a mid week winner a crushing blow Bomber??

thefalcon · May 2018

yes, waller, weir, the hayes camp...that's not what we are discussing trk.

therealkramer · May 2018

thefalcon said:
yes, waller, weir, the hayes camp...that's not what we are discussing trk.

Right, so it's not the fact that Bob is omnipresent, it's that others are jealous?

scenic11 · May 2018

The last time I looked Waller, Hayes and Weir were pretty big buyers at their local yearling sales.
Also they have owners and breeders who use their local stallions and support their local breeding industry.
They are not parasites in their respective home states but big supporters of Vobis, Bobs etc and give back plenty.

jum · May 2018

RIO said:

H-BOMBER said:
And the dominance continues in race 1 in another crushing blow for the industry

how is a mid week winner a crushing blow Bomber??

Think Bomber was being Facetious Rio

:D

Rex · May 2018

Bob started off paying trying fee's the same as anyone else. Maybe he is more astute at what he doe's than his knockers. Any of the knockers would love to be where he is now in racing. Good luck to him for being better at it than the others as he started on equal terms with them. I think his first trainer was G. Way but I stand to be corrected on that.

RIO · May 2018

jum said:

RIO said:

H-BOMBER said:
And the dominance continues in race 1 in another crushing blow for the industry

how is a mid week winner a crushing blow Bomber??

Think Bomber was being Facetious Rio

:D

Was hoping a person with his intelligence might actually add to the conversation...another misjudgment of character...seem to be doing heaps of that these days ;-)

Tivers · May 2018

What I did comment at the recent workshops is that the bonus should be more evenly spread.
I don’t see why a prime Saturday win bonus should increase the total stake by 100%, whereas a midweek or provincial it only increases it by say 50%..
And why the WA stallion bonus applies to Saturday prime only.
I’d be more than happy for the full bonus level to be pegged at say the win stake plus 80% - but across the board.
So say you get additional 40% Standard, 30% Xtra and 10% platinum...... on whatever the win stake is.

RIO · May 2018

Glad you raised it Tivers as obviously RWWA and the Rules Review Committee saw no need to deal with it at this stage.

My opinion may be skewered by my memory of why we have Westspeed in the first place. I am certain when it was first rolled out it was an attempt to maintain breeding here to local mares and stallions.

It now appears to be here to reward winners and keep them buying or breeding. Just starting to see the errors of my thought process.

I'll now consider that Westspeed is being maintained to keep buyers and breeders in the industry.....Kicking myself for being so inflexible to see the change!!!

:\"> :\"> :\">

H-BOMBER · May 2018

RIO said:

jum said:

RIO said:

H-BOMBER said:
And the dominance continues in race 1 in another crushing blow for the industry

how is a mid week winner a crushing blow Bomber??

Think Bomber was being Facetious Rio

:D

Was hoping a person with his intelligence might actually add to the conversation...another misjudgment of character...seem to be doing heaps of that these days ;-)

Now now, steady on. I'm just adding some light-hearted-ness to this.

As a current but very minor participant of the industry (that is, i own part of one horse atm), I don't have the vested interest that some of the leviathen breeders in here have. So really, much of my opinion would count for nothing in the eyes of the guys that slog it out most days to try and earn a living from this industry. Hats off to you all who are giving it your all. And when we talk industry, I guess it's referring to the breeders only. Because as an owner, I don't care that Bob Peter's dominates. As a punter, I don't care that he dominates, in fact it's great (as @funkster said originally, punters pay him on the back). As someone who is interested in Perth racing, I love seeing his horses peel out on the corner and sweep past the field with Pike riding like a man possessed.

So really, define industry. It's sounds as though the only ones with their noses put out of joint are the breeding operators....and probably fair enough. Is it bad for the industry though. As a whole, no, I don't think so. Why? Well I don't breed horses. I own horses, I don't even buy them, I leave that the experts. I bring new owners in. I travel.around the state to watchy horse/s run. I have a punt. I watch with interest. And that's what I enjoy. Because I can. Am I then a parasite to the.part of the industry who feel hard done by because I don't have a problem with the dominance of the BP juggernaut. I don't care. The system is what it is. BP has been around for longer than most and has put up his own money and time for decades to get to this point. From my parasitic misinformed position I believe the "industry" as a whole would be worse off with out him here. I would really like to know how many people have left the industry because of the dominance of BP. For that reason alone, I'd say zero.

If it's not fair, unjust etc then I think action speaks louder than words. Words just sound sour. The end.

G'day Punter!

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