Comments worth a post but not a thread of their own

freodockers · November 2023

Gilgamesh said:

Markovina said:
One observation ive made re TAB.Com , i think they are losing alot re fixed odds with the saturation of short priced favourites winning ,and it is not just WA , when Emma comes to town like last Sat night at Melton , well 6 or 7 of them win and they are around $1.30 or shorter

Up until 2-3 months back as soon as that nights Trotting in Aus had finished within half an hour , they had for fixed odds every market up for every Trotting meeting Aust wide for the following day and often it was for 5-6 meetings and every fixed odds market would be available to bet on

And they are particularly gun shy of GP , last Frid , 12 oclock midday their time they didnt have the GP fixed odds market up

365 use to have their markets for the next day up at 5PM western standard time for every meeting. They are no longer doing that so all corporates now hold off and float in at different times as they dont have that initial market to base their own off.

I heard someone from RWWA talk about how they were very keen to grow the amount wagered on harness racing but was along the lines of we want to do that from the more casual punter rather that the rusted on trots punter.

It screamed we are trying to milk some more money off mugs rather that offer things (like early market) that the followers of the code might take advantage of.

I do have to give TABTOUCH some credit on their friday efforts, they have seemingly been up very early Fri mornings for all races of late, that compares well to the rest of the corporates.

So they should be, it’s their job.

Gilgamesh · November 2023

freodockers said:

Gilgamesh said:

Markovina said:
One observation ive made re TAB.Com , i think they are losing alot re fixed odds with the saturation of short priced favourites winning ,and it is not just WA , when Emma comes to town like last Sat night at Melton , well 6 or 7 of them win and they are around $1.30 or shorter

Up until 2-3 months back as soon as that nights Trotting in Aus had finished within half an hour , they had for fixed odds every market up for every Trotting meeting Aust wide for the following day and often it was for 5-6 meetings and every fixed odds market would be available to bet on

And they are particularly gun shy of GP , last Frid , 12 oclock midday their time they didnt have the GP fixed odds market up

365 use to have their markets for the next day up at 5PM western standard time for every meeting. They are no longer doing that so all corporates now hold off and float in at different times as they dont have that initial market to base their own off.

I heard someone from RWWA talk about how they were very keen to grow the amount wagered on harness racing but was along the lines of we want to do that from the more casual punter rather that the rusted on trots punter.

It screamed we are trying to milk some more money off mugs rather that offer things (like early market) that the followers of the code might take advantage of.

I do have to give TABTOUCH some credit on their friday efforts, they have seemingly been up very early Fri mornings for all races of late, that compares well to the rest of the corporates.
So they should be, it’s their job.

It is but rightly or wrongly its not how the business is modelled.

It was clearly a smart play to let someone else go up first, patricularly if you now they alow a few on for a couple of dollars here and there to show market indicators and then copy that.

Issue may have been that 365 had blocked thst many people thst they were actually doing zero bunsiness early!

Chariotsonfire · November 2023

The options are fairly simple. Go up first and do your ars and have less funds to distribute to the industry.

It doesn't matter how good the price assessor is there always others that have access to vital information that the price assessor does not.

When this occurs, you cannot hide behind percentages.

Chariotsonfire · November 2023

Six 1177m races at Pinjarra. Five leaders have won and the other faced the breeze.

Markovina · November 2023

Those short races - having watched them at Melton - im no fan of them at all - and interestingly their Sat meeting 2-3 weeks back - they had 2 of those 1200 metre races - and guess what they were the 2nd last and last races on the programme - that says it all - hiding them

They are a desperate cry for help from the administrators to increase turnover - but it wont work - its like trying to pull white rabbits from the sleeve of your shirt it aint going to happen

Re the discussion corporates putting up their market 1st and the night before - interested in Chariots re the ex bookmaker view- if he was in the game today - with his own off course bookmaker set up - how he would have tried to make a profit - given the saturation of short priced favourites winning - and its not just WA and Melb - plenty of places in NSW - Bathurst - Amanda Turnbull a saturation of NZ horses - MW Boots must have about 30-40 NZs spread everywhere with about 10 different trainers . Wagga is the same short price faves

My view - and way back i actually inquired as to how to become a bookie at Harold Park - you know the bond you had to put up etc . And why i did that - is 1 night at HP i tried to put a modest bet on - you know there was about 20 bookies in a line - standing their like those clowns with their mouth open at the local show - and this bookie who kocked back my bet - and i made a comment to him - and he said to me - quote - you try standing up here and make a living each week

My philosopy would have been - ok in the 8 races - who has got a nice picket fence form line - but who is way up in grade - thus a big chance of getting beat re the real form line line and grade - would not have been interested in any race before or after that one - would have bet massive unders for every horse - but the race i had selected - if the ring were bet 5-4 , i would have bet 7-4 and taken 20k bets

If i was bookmaker at HP back then - that is how i would have bet on a weekly basis

Gilgamesh · November 2023

Chariotsonfire said:
Six 1177m races at Pinjarra. Five leaders have won and the other faced the breeze.

Great for attracting the new breed of punter!! Entertainment plus.

freodockers · November 2023

Chariotsonfire said:
Six 1177m races at Pinjarra. Five leaders have won and the other faced the breeze.

8 races yesterday at Pinjarra seven winners from first 3.
Re short races like it or not it’s where the industry is being pushed. Might take some tweaking re barrier draws to slow the leaders/win strike rate.
I see on the racing thread there are conversation's now about leader bias tracks in Perth.

Chariotsonfire · November 2023

Interesting bookmaking concept Marko and I have never seen it tried before.

Personally I preferred to operate on most races even if I scaled back on some.

At GP bookmakers were required to bet to win $2000 until the horses came on the track then reduced to $500.

I had my own computer database for form (previously manual form cards), went to trials at GP, Byford and Pinjarra and did a considerable amount of research prior to each meeting. Even then there would be many races that I did not feel confident in my market due to unknown factors and the kniowledge than certain big punters would know more about driving tactics than me.

freodockers · November 2023

Chariotsonfire said:
Interesting bookmaking concept Marko and I have never seen it tried before.

Personally I preferred to operate on most races even if I scaled back on some.

At GP bookmakers were required to bet to win $2000 until the horses came on the track then reduced to $500.

I had my own computer database for form (previously manual form cards), went to trials at GP, Byford and Pinjarra and did a considerable amount of research prior to each meeting. Even then there would be many races that I did not feel confident in my market due to unknown factors and the kniowledge than certain big punters would know more about driving tactics than me.

Interesting comments Chariots.

freodockers · November 2023

GP Tonight
R1 Roger James
R2 Dr Steve
R3 TritTrit bang stable in form
R6 Montego

Gilgamesh · November 2023

freodockers said:
GP Tonight
R1 Roger James
R2 Dr Steve
R3 TritTrit bang stable in form
R6 Montego

R2 Cavalry Call great EW price, one of us can get the fave beaten.

freodockers · November 2023

Arggghhh !!!!

Markovina · November 2023

Last night at Geel another 4 of those shocking 1100 metre races - tiny fields 1st 3 leaders won and the last one was basically a 2 horse field

Its ok to try new things - but this isnt new - about 8-10 years ago NSW were running some of these at Fairfield and Penrith - and i can remember M Radley saying at the time on the radio - i better jump on a plane and have a look at this

These races failed back then to get any support - and they will fail again , it would be like running gallops races over 400-500 metres - it would fit in well time wise duration re Sky Channel but totally destroys the product

savethegame · November 2023

Marko 2010 inters first round heats at H.P group flew over to get some ideas as W.A had inters coming up 2012. It coincided with Chinese New Cup at G.P. 19 Feb. 2010 . G.P. had at least 2500 more patrons on course then H.P.

PictureSon1973 · November 2023

As a bit of a non event with these 1100 metre races are .They do allow owners of inferior
Horses the chance to earn and keep on racing having had a pacer that wouldn’t settle
but had great gate speed I wish the 1100 metre races were around then.
Only if the prefential barrier draw could be incorporated with a tapered mobile barrier
worst assessed to best assessed on the outer barriers a 4metre taper would be nice
if at all possible.

freodockers · November 2023

Contgrats to our very own JayJay on today winning the Collie Cup sponsored by Bendigo Bank and drive by S Suvaljko.
Country support all round.
Mikipelo looks like a very nice pick up, still a 3yo winning over 2600 mtrs. Quite a few wins in store I’d say. Well done JayJay nothing better than a country cup. And well done to SS not his biggest win but a few memories there today I’m sure.

JayJay · November 2023

Don't forget the trainer Freo, 5th Collie Cup for Matt to go with 7 King Coal Cups. SJS and MGS a pretty deadly combination with the stands down there. Definitely cheered up what has been an ordinary week for our family.

freodockers · November 2023

Yes JayJay totally left out MS very well done and another great supporter of country trots.

Markovina · November 2023

Jay Jay winning all these Country Cups

Whats he got - the Northam Cup , the Collie Cup , he won The Busselton Cup didnt he , Mitch Miller galloped at the start but a perfect drive and it still won

Its like hes playing Monopoly, hes got 3 of those Railway Stations , hes just trying to get the 4th one and thus the set

freodockers · November 2023

GP Tonight
R2 Sidstrepo
R3 Cav Call (Gilga picked it last week very unlucky)
R5 Elsamay
R7 Sister Act
R9 Allwood Wizard small field, lightweight driver, one sprint at Em, 20s fixed is nuts.

Markovina · December 2023

Looking at these various rating systems for handicapping i think its a load of rubbish - got holes galore in it like say the AFL draft

Can someone explain to me , Race 2 at Young Tonight how horse 9 Reason To Paarty ( and i have backed it ) is in that race . And more to the point how can it have a NR of 50 given whats it done and horse no 1 who is $51 only had 9 starts its got an NR of 48

Those 2 horses with their NR basically the same - that says the NR system is an absolute joke . Id be interested how theyd be handicapped in the once stand alone WA system .

getthechange · December 2023

Mama Rosie 1 win Nr 48 WA Level 3

my ultmate harry 1 win NR 53 WA Level 2 2nd

Absolutely Stokes 1 win NR 52 WA Level 2

Johnies Blue 2 wins NR 56 Wa Level 2 3rd

alice on the Beach 2 wins NR 43 Wa Level 4

Road to recovery 2 wins NR 43 WA Level 3

Beachride 2 wins NR 59 WA Level 2 1st

Catchingconfidence 2 wins NR 44 Wa Level 4

reason to party 7 wins NR 50 WA level 7 4th

Sunnywithachance 4 wins NR 34 Wa Level 6

Major difference between the two systems

NR horses start at 50 and with minus points for finishing 6th to last can drop to 30 so non winners can be anywhere from 30 to 50+ and multiple winners can be anywhere from 30 to 120

In WA all non winning jhorses start at Level 1 and do not drop below that level - every time they win a part of their $ for winning is added and the Level of the horse is determined by which Win $ bracket the horse has advanced too - there are no drop back races in the L races - horses can only drop back in the L5$Lt races

Eg

Iamawingate 145 starts 13 wins $102k in stakenoney stake money this season $30k has a NR of 43 while a first starter has a NR of 50 and is Level 1 in WA

In WA Iamawingate would be a level 10 in L races and if placed in the right races the lowest race he could be eligible for is the L5$ LT $4k races

freodockers · December 2023

Gottagoodwarhole tonight great ew chance .
Should have won if not run second last week.

freodockers · December 2023

One of the greatest drives you’ll ever see.
Are those face things see through ??

Chopchop43 · December 2023

Nothing wrong with the drive what else can you really do with an average horse from barrier 7 in a field where it was always going to be a 400 metre sprint

freodockers · December 2023

No it was a terrible drive.
No effort at all should have finished fourth at worst.
Will watch with interest next run when T Wheelers back on.

Chopchop43 · December 2023

Sounds like someone's talking out of there wallet rather than analysing the race, blind freddy could see why it was a 20/1 pop and it went accordingly

freodockers · December 2023

100% talking out of my wallet.
Appears I wasn’t the only one who was concerned with his efforts or lack of.
Race 4
https://www.harness.org.au/racing/stewards-reports/stewards-reports-detail/?mc=GP021223

Betonme · December 2023

https://harnesslink.com/australia/leading-harness-racing-trainer-disqualified-for-6-months/

Chopchop43 · December 2023

freodockers said:
100% talking out of my wallet.
Appears I wasn’t the only one who was concerned with his efforts or lack of.
Race 4
https://www.harness.org.au/racing/stewards-reports/stewards-reports-detail/?mc=GP021223

are we talking about maddy maddy or gottagoodwarhole?? I was talking about the drive on the latter yet you've shown me a stewards report for the drive on maddy maddy

G'day Punter!

In this Discussion

Who's Online

Comments worth a post but not a thread of their own

Comments