Gloucester Park 6/3

JayJay · March 5

Very skinny meeting tonight. Late start, early finish with a just 8 races and 81 acceptors, way down on the 10 race, full field, 120 acceptors last year that prompted a boost in turnover,back to the bad times again....must not be chasing the fake "turnover hotspot" in the eastern states anymore, another gas lighting claim that was never supported by evidence. Should run a "Guess the starting time sweep" each Friday? Any chance of a consistent start time? Nope, dream on, punters don't like consistency.....not much they don't

The calendar planners have really got a handle on things...like the UNannounced "stakes cuts' that were just slid into the programming.....all races down to $21k getting rid of $23k, $25k and $27k races....plus the replacement of one race with a $9k country stake....repeat all UNANNOUNCED by the Harness Racing Office???

A few high level complaints...."An internal budget anomaly" was the description provided....and so it was, with a few $23k and $25k races making cameo appearances over the last few weeks, whilst the $31k race for the FFA remained untouched, of course it would remain untouched, wouldn't it?

So what have we got tonight? A measly 8 races, one a country stake, all the rest back to $21k except for the mares race and a $31k Claytons Free For All for horses that are not actually Free For Allers....none with a maximum rating of 120, with zero disrespect to any of the very nice horses? Good work if you can get it racing a NR 80 horse in a FFA worth $31k. Will it soon be back to 4,5 and 6 horse Free For Alls to look after the big end of town?

Enough material here for the Review Inquiry into governance to occupy themselves with for a week or two, never mind the truckload of examples that have/will roll in by COB March 8th at the Secretariat. Adverse findings against a decade of mismanagement a possibility? Perish the thought.

Rocket_Reign · March 5

As much as i agree and the reason is they were splitting that 30-60 into up to 3 races of full fields each week, now for country stakes no one is interested in such a broad class of race when there’s multiple more suitable country races for the same stakes during the week.

It’s definitely brought the meeting down numbers wise. But haven’t seen any big write ups with the dismal outer country tracks fields that’s been happening regularly

JayJay · March 6

Bunbury fields tonight at 7 races for a $6k meeting is pretty decent, as is Narrogin's 7 races , pretty full on Saturday Night.

Pinjarra has 9 races, 90 acceptors, albeit propped up a bit by two trotters races, but more than acceptable. The Tuesday at Northam is only 6 races but field size okay, similar to a lot of Tuesday meetings including Gloucester Park. Average 9 horses per race, high than Fridays 8.1 at GP.

But the recurring theme from head office over decades is that the prime metro meeting at GP on a Friday is critical to "carrying the team"...you know what I mean, flagship, turnover etc.

sonny · March 6

My Bets .G.P..r4n11...r5n12e/w...r6n6...r7n7..,Bunb..r2n10...r5n12.. Good Punting All

Chopchop43 · March 6

JayJay said:
Bunbury fields tonight at 7 races for a $6k meeting is pretty decent, as is Narrogin's 7 races , pretty full on Saturday Night.

Pinjarra has 9 races, 90 acceptors, albeit propped up a bit by two trotters races, but more than acceptable. The Tuesday at Northam is only 6 races but field size okay, similar to a lot of Tuesday meetings including Gloucester Park. Average 9 horses per race, high than Fridays 8.1 at GP.

But the recurring theme from head office over decades is that the prime metro meeting at GP on a Friday is critical to "carrying the team"...you know what I mean, flagship, turnover etc.

well what would you do different with our metro class meeting just out of curiosity ? I think a free for all race should be worth a little more than your stock standard metro class race if your at all interested incentivising keeping that calibre of horse in the state rather than ship them off to the states which has been the case for a fair while now

JayJay · March 6

Incentivising has worked well, hasn't it, absolute winner.? The incentive has been there for ages......and we remain just a staging post for the export market to North America......yep, working a treat, the freighters remain as booked as they ever were.

This latest arrangement of stakes has "disincentivised" the passage through the grades....everyone races for $21k....the $23k incentive...gone...the $25k incentive ....gone...the mares $27k incentive .....gone..... but the $31k "incentive", just as it was last year for 4, 5 and 6 horse FFA's......albeit they were for proper NR 120 Free For Alls......no, no no, they are untouchable, we cannot go there, can we?

Chopchop43 · March 6

JayJay said:
Incentivising has worked well, hasn't it, absolute winner.? The incentive has been there for ages......and we remain just a staging post for the export market to North America......yep, working a treat, the freighters remain as booked as they ever were.

This latest arrangement of stakes has "disincentivised" the passage through the grades....everyone races for $21k....the $23k incentive...gone...the $25k incentive ....gone...the mares $27k incentive .....gone..... but the $31k "incentive", just as it was last year for 4, 5 and 6 horse FFA's......albeit they were for proper NR 120 Free For Alls......no, no no, they are untouchable, we cannot go there, can we?

<br/well in my opinion keep FFA prize money where its at, without seeing the stat's it seems field sizes in that grade have improved over the past 12 months, it seems like that quality of horse has been retained over here and not shipped off over to the states and id say prize money has alot to do with that, I do however think that you should be Incentivising horses to go through the grades by racing for more money as you rise in grade, but if we were to go 100% in on that would that mean we would have to go off that model for country racing ??? Lets be honest what we are racing for in the country as is , isnt great prize money now imagine a system where maidens race for 6k on every country track, Nr 40-49 for 6.5k and so on and so on, bit of a grind to make ends meet

JayJay · March 6

The reality is (look no further than the AFL) that sports that fund from the top down end up with a collapsing pyramid as the base crumbles. Country, grassroots, community and youth football in WA is a crumbling shrinking mess.

The payment of someone with genetically induced ("luck of the draw" in some cases) high level hand eye coordination (can catch, run and kick) two million dollars a season and rising, about 4 times what we pay a Prime Minister to run an entire country, is the height of absurdity whilst the bottom feeders (hate that term) sit on their firewood raffle stalls each Saturday morning hoping to eek a few dollars out of their community to buy a new set of jumpers for the under 11's. It is to say the least galling and eventually soul destroying.

Funding from the top is like "trickle down economics"...theoretically okay but it just don't work, never has, never will. The entitled greed factor of humanity always over rides any concerns for the industry as a whole. Start Industry funding from the bottom, a $10,000 minimum country stake as a start point and a graded system rising to a trimmed up top that doesn't ensure a negative industry return on investment is hard to accept for some but if you want an industry in 10 years time, it is a no brainer.

Onthe export front, what you supposed (that the quality of horse has been retained over here) is sadly not true. I have been lax in not keeping totally on top of all the stats but below is a list (cannot guarantee it is exhaustive) but all of these have definitely had their papers stamped in the last 12 months:

Soho Santorini, Diego, Blaze On, Vegas Star, Vanderbilt, Rock Artist, Rocket City, Jumping Jack Mac, Lusaka, Princess Katie, Tricky Miki, Street hawk, Soho Firestone, Sugar Apple, I'm The Black Flash, Pinny Tiger, Crowd Control, Lamandier, Skylou, Tenzing Bromac, The Miki Taker, Thenu Came Along.....not all Free For Allers but a serious dent inthe higher class ranks....but having filled up their boots from "incentivised money", they have, courtesy of a favourable exchange rate, filled up their owner's pockets. How much more is needed to keep them here, when is too much incentivising not enough?? Doesn't matter, we are running at a monumental loss as it is and sugar hits like the Nullabor, fake super stake 2 year old races funded by snipping existing races and concentrating it all on a single race, and Friday Night $450k Pacing Cup Free For Alls have not made a jot of difference. A topic high on the list of the reviewers on RWWA governance I would imagine.

Chopchop43 · March 6

JayJay said:
The reality is (look no further than the AFL) that sports that fund from the top down end up with a collapsing pyramid as the base crumbles. Country, grassroots, community and youth football in WA is a crumbling shrinking mess.

The payment of someone with genetically induced ("luck of the draw" in some cases) high level hand eye coordination (can catch, run and kick) two million dollars a season and rising, about 4 times what we pay a Prime Minister to run an entire country, is the height of absurdity whilst the bottom feeders (hate that term) sit on their firewood raffle stalls each Saturday morning hoping to eek a few dollars out of their community to buy a new set of jumpers for the under 11's. It is to say the least galling and eventually soul destroying.

Funding from the top is like "trickle down economics"...theoretically okay but it just don't work, never has, never will. The entitled greed factor of humanity always over rides any concerns for the industry as a whole. Start Industry funding from the bottom, a $10,000 minimum country stake as a start point and a graded system rising to a trimmed up top that doesn't ensure a negative industry return on investment is hard to accept for some but if you want an industry in 10 years time, it is a no brainer.

Onthe export front, what you supposed (that the quality of horse has been retained over here) is sadly not true. I have been lax in not keeping totally on top of all the stats but below is a list (cannot guarantee it is exhaustive) but all of these have definitely had their papers stamped in the last 12 months:

Soho Santorini, Diego, Blaze On, Vegas Star, Vanderbilt, Rock Artist, Rocket City, Jumping Jack Mac, Lusaka, Princess Katie, Tricky Miki, Street hawk, Soho Firestone, Sugar Apple, I'm The Black Flash, Pinny Tiger, Crowd Control, Lamandier, Skylou, Tenzing Bromac, The Miki Taker, Thenu Came Along.....not all Free For Allers but a serious dent inthe higher class ranks....but having filled up their boots from "incentivised money", they have, courtesy of a favourable exchange rate, filled up their owner's pockets. How much more is needed to keep them here, when is too much incentivising not enough?? Doesn't matter, we are running at a monumental loss as it is and sugar hits like the Nullabor, fake super stake 2 year old races funded by snipping existing races and concentrating it all on a single race, and Friday Night $450k Pacing Cup Free For Alls have not made a jot of difference. A topic high on the list of the reviewers on RWWA governance I would imagine.

I cant speak on much regarding country football or anything outside of the Perth football league, but the PFL seems to be traveling as strong as ever , A grade all the way through to E2s , 5 different colts divisions and new teams popping up in developing suburbs left right and centre , granted the WAFL can barely draw a crowd , why that is I dont know and wont pretend too but I dont think grassroots level football is traveling that bad but that is a discussion for another forum

VillageKid · March 6

I can categorically say football has never been in a worse state than currently in WA.

Teams folding both juniors & seniors, junior competitions at all time lows, blokes my age in their 40s & 50s still playing so teams can get numbers on the field, the standard is very average, the skill level worse.

The WAFC & AFL will throw up "participation numbers" but that include masters (veterans), womens, all abilities, auskick, afl 9s social games etc but it just masks the "real" numbers boys/men playing 4 qtrs of proper footy each weekend hasnt grown one iota despite our population growing threefold in my time of being involved!

JayJay · March 6

Correct....count the number of country clubs that have folded or had to merge, tally up there "traveling players" (come paid) mercenary's that often make up half the towns league side, tell me which country leagues still have a colts competition, count the vast number of once thriving metropolitan junior clubs with huge history and tradition that simply vanished.

The great "participation numbers" furphy..... if ever there was a gold medalist in the Smoke and mirrors" category of spin doctoring, it would be a walkover for the AFL/WAFC's "participation numbers" which includes any seven year old kid that rocks up at a school based football clinic and is never ever seen at a junior club.

The PFL has absorbed so many clubs from other comps and leagues that have fallen over....the old WAAFL, the Sunday League, The South Suburban Football League, Perth Mercantile....the unresearched, unsupported "seems to be" observation is sadly not in any way supported by total registrations, in spite of some clubs (senior, not junior) emerging in the developing suburbs.

VillageKid · March 7

JayJay said:
Correct....count the number of country clubs that have folded or had to merge, tally up there "traveling players" (come paid) mercenary's that often make up half the towns league side, tell me which country leagues still have a colts competition, count the vast number of once thriving metropolitan junior clubs with huge history and tradition that simply vanished.

The great "participation numbers" furphy..... if ever there was a gold medalist in the Smoke and mirrors" category of spin doctoring, it would be a walkover for the AFL/WAFC's "participation numbers" which includes any seven year old kid that rocks up at a school based football clinic and is never ever seen at a junior club.

The PFL has absorbed so many clubs from other comps and leagues that have fallen over....the old WAAFL, the Sunday League, The South Suburban Football League, Perth Mercantile....the unresearched, unsupported "seems to be" observation is sadly not in any way supported by total registrations, in spite of some clubs (senior, not junior) emerging in the developing suburbs.

Spot on the money with all of the above JJ.

You would remember as I do all 8 WAFL clubs had their own strong metro junior council competitions from Under 9s right through to Under 17s and Perths population would have been 800k.

Having played in both the Swans & Perth councils they had more than a dozen clubs through each age group from 9 - 17.

Now they would barely even have a dozen clubs across what is now 10 WAFL clubs in totality for Year 11 & Year 12s in a Greater Perth population of 2.5m.

I can only imagine the country would be similar if not worse....

Bushbookie · March 7

Same here in Qld Bush Towns , Our Rugby League Comps in our bush towns have dissapeared from many . Main thing is they cant get Committee and Coaches for Senior and Junior sides . Growing up in the 60s and 70s our coaches were current A graders in our Mining Town and it was expected of A Graders to take on a junior side . Not Now , Women do most of the junior coaching in the bush towns . Once a teenage boy knew your towns best cricketer , best Footy players , best boxers , best speedway drivers and riders , not now , Just overseas international and AFL level sport had completely errassed local sport off any kids minds .

AbbysAce · March 7

Your better off buying a cheapie in the NR30s and racing it for $21,000 on a friday night, then buying an overpriced kiwi or yearling.

Markovina · March 7

This football talk , there were so many kids trying to get a game in junior football in the 60s

No bulldust one Sat morning , and there was a 10 goal gale blowing down one end , we had this priick of a coach , so in the 1st qtr we were kicking with the gale , so he put his worst 6 players ( i was one of them ) on the backline - i was in a back pocket , thus didnt see the ball , at qtr time he moved his 6 worst players to the forward line , because we were now kicking into the gale , didnt see the ball again in the 2nd qtr and then i got taken off at h/t , one of the reasons i gave aussie rules the flick as a participant

Ido remember back in the day the Sunday league in Perth was a very strong comp ., i think the late D Cometti might have cut his teeth coaching a couple of sides their before he coached West Perth

Still love the Trotting , but every other sport and basically the world is feucked , i mean De Konning who is just a player , goes from Carlton to StKilda and gets 1.6mill a year - what an absolute take - AFL Football has basically become a soap opera

Chopchop43 · March 7

Well coming from someone who still actually plays in the PFL and keeps strong tabs on that competition, go through and see how many teams there are just at senior levels (not including colts) , there are roughly 9 different levels of competition A grade through to E2, from A grade through to C5 each club in those divisions also has a reserves team , each division with its corresponding reserves competition has any where between 8-12 teams , simple maths would suggest thats alot of teams overall and alot of active players in the greater Perth metro area, and again thats not including the 5 colts divisions. Yes the PFL has absorbed alot of clubs from different competition ie Baldivis etc but thats mainly due to how bad other competition such as the Peel league are run. As for junior grassroots level I can only speak for clubs like Warnbro who im still involved in and Baldivis , levels of participation are extremely high and junior football in that region seems healthy , again as I said in my previous post I cant speak for every competition but I do believe the PFL is traveling just fine, now does that mean the PFL in the grand scheme of things may just be a bit of an outlier, possibly when you think of how little fanfare there is for the WAFL which is meant to be our major state competition. Now how on earth we got on to this topic when the original discussion was based around prizemoney and rwwas reluctance to be transparent and notify the participants when there are going to be changes is beyond me

G'day Punter!

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Gloucester Park 6/3

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