Bunbury Inter Dominion Heats

Ridersonthestorm33 · November 2016

One bad barrier draw can see a horse like Franco Nelson miss out Freyburg and Our Jimmy Johnstone likewise...it's an insult to their connections that we can run twelve ( like most other races on the programme ) but for the biggest race on the calendar we go two less. Even our old mate Blind Freddy can see the stupidity in that.

JayJay · November 2016

Actually 16 acceptors in the NZ Cup won by Lazarus, one scratching, 15 went around. And they continue with this 9/1 rubbish.

Ridersonthestorm33 · November 2016

Last years series and this year both fantastic...only made 2 mistakes...running the final daytime on a Sunday in warm weather early summer...good try but not on...this year changed..well done. Next year make it a 12 horse series in the heats or at the very least a 12 horse final. The 9 horse fields in the 1730 metre races were a dismal failure and they got rid of them...it can be done!

matt · November 2016

Something left Field. 1.1 million dollar final , 2900 metres mobile, same as next Friday. But...with 14 horses, 9x5 starting line up, for 2017! Would be a few moves then and true toughest standing.

Thoughts?

JayJay · November 2016

Can be accused of being an old, sentimentalist, living in the past... probably correctly, and I know horses are going faster, bred for speed. all that sort of thing but the best racing I ever witnessed at GP were large fields, albeit from the stand, over testing distances. Pacing Cups, when the Easter Cup was a true staying test and so on. There was great depth in fast class ranks then as it would be if the top 12 got a run in the final. The formula that worked at past Inters and those fore-mentioned major races was 12 runners, 13 furlongs. So, 2600m mobile, get rid of the 9 across the front nonsense and go 7 x 5. I wouldn't mind 14, 9 x 5 and 2900m but it weren't broke, so why try to fix it.

curmudgeon · November 2016

The thing is that apart from to the tragics ...the Inters now has little meaning. The traditional rotation is long dead and now the familiarity of repetitive geographical series is well and truly breeding contempt. People are switching off like they now do to the vomitious cricket overkill.

This years hotch potch edition is a pitiable administrative train wreck....I refuse to blame the participants for any of the shortcomings of this series...and those shortcomings are manifold ..as reflected by the nosediving turnover. Every Inters series in history has suffered from attrition but that attrition has never affected the punters margin like the current shambles. It's lucky there isn't 4 sets of heats or paying one - two only would have been the result this year.

The competing priorities,vested interests and crossover media obligations have lead to a mass feeding of the chooks as old Joh ( showing my age ) used to say in terms of constructive criticism.

I will make it simple for next year.

Night 1 Friday GP 12 horse 4 x 1700m heats.....lowest 12 earners drop out of series unless required to fill scratchings.

Night 2 Tuesday Pinjarra or Bunbury ...12 horse 3 x 2500m heats sprint lane in use.....lowest 12 earners drop out of series unless needed to fill scratchings.

Night 3 Friday GP 12 horse 2 x 2100m heats .... lowest 12 earners drop out unless needed to fill scratchings.

Final night at GP

1 x 12 Horse final of top point scorers....competing for 60 % of gross Inters purse.

1 x 12 horse consolation of next highest earners competing for 25 % of Gross Inters purse

1 x 12 horse consolation of next highest earners competing for 15 % of Gross Inters purse.

It aint rocket science

Ridersonthestorm33 · November 2016

That is rocket science. :-B just keep it simple for me...3 heats on 3 nights and a final.

Ridersonthestorm33 · November 2016

Matt sometime about late 80s or early 90s they brought in 14 horse fields from the stand and had them for a about year or so. Very good betting races with the handicaps giving everybody a chance. When they came to an abrupt halt the reason given - safety issue. They were great races to watch with...plenty of moves!!

Ridersonthestorm33 · November 2016

Do like the idea of Bunbury though...that's to be congratulated for whoever thought to run the middle heats in the country. Pinjarra with lights would be exceptional too.

Fastmoney · November 2016

Unfortunately there is no punter input into any decision RWWA or any of the individual codes make.

None of their decisions are based on proper analysis of data but are based around the opinions of a handful of individuals who think they know whats best.

The recent decision to reduce the Greyhounds Perth Cup and Galaxy by 20% and all greyhound feature races by 10%, to fund the Greyhound Adoption Program, is nothing short of disgraceful.

Harness is funding the richest series in the world and Thoroughbreds are running 3 weeks of $1mil races yet Greyhound participants have to pay for an adoption program.

Most recent RWWA report shows the distribution and pare mutuel figures.

Pare mutuel turnover 14/15 by code

Thou....Harn....Grey
54%....15.7%..30.3%

Distribution by code

Thou....Harn....Grey
62%....25.4%..12.6%

Fairly obvious Greyhound wagering turnover is funding the other 2 codes (and has done for 10 years) yet RWWA has no intention of rewarding any code on wagering performance.

The end result is the the 2 equine codes have no incentive to improve their wagering performance and what you get is poor handicapping, poor field sizes and ongoing declining turnover.

Unfortunately the greyhound code has been unfairly crucified by media and social media exaggerations and it appears that RWWA has been influenced by it.

RWWA has pretended to embrace the NSW McHugh Greyhound report and it recommendations, but has ignored recommendation 64 which states that each code should be funded in line with their wagering turnover.

Instead they continue to fund the 2 equine codes well above their betting turnover % and Greyhound participants get reduced stake-money even though Greyhounds subsidize the other 2 codes.

Rant over.

Ridersonthestorm33 · November 2016

Harness only 15.7% :-O

Ridersonthestorm33 · November 2016

JJ doesn't remember ( probably on holidays! ) but it was either 80s or early 90s they would allocate a horse a number ( as normal ) but not draw the barriers until about 5 or 10 mins before the event! Bookies and tote would bet but you had no idea where your horse was going to start from! Then there was a mad scramble to get on in 5 mins! It had some merit ( can't remember what! ) think they kept it going for a few months . Then it went back where it belonged - oblivion.

Ridersonthestorm33 · November 2016

Just one or two races a night on Friday at GP they would have the 'mystery draw race'. If hadn't have been there wouldn't have believed it! It was a way to increase turnover they said ( goodness gracious not knowing until 5 mins to race time what draw you had! ) I would back something at 10s before the draw and listen to it draw 8 or 9 and go out to 50/1 and run accordingly. In saying that it was accepted for a little while...there was a novelty attraction to it. Of course it was hard for the bookies to frame a market and the secret to getting the 'overs' was to hope you drew well! A 7/1 chance could fast become a 3/1 chance after the draw. Mine went the other way!

savethegame · November 2016

Dead right offhebit whats on next is the most important thing to a punter while he is in tab land, but what is just as important a bigger% of diehard punters receive spare cash on a Friday (wages etc) and they are creature of habit punt fri night, then sat or sat night if anything left .That's why places like kalg trots have good fiqures only on Friday nights getting first call of punters money.recent example FRIDAY 18nov 7race card t/o202,918. SATURDAY 26nov8racecard t/o159,675.may not be totally main bodies fault,thats why every Friday night should have country meeting in cohorts with g.p.Always administration worked for the industry, but somehow they have turned it around.tom percy article on nov 15.pretty close to the mark.Diehard lover of the inters in its old format they have tried 1986 2 1609m heats 0ne 2100 heat 2100 final.Matt nothing wrong with you idea little bit of tweking people don't need to wait a life time for a top horse and destroy it in a fortnight.2010 inters rang alarm bells for me,a delegation from w.a. went over to h.p. to source ideas for there upcoming series in2012. if I can remember right on the first night of heats at h.p. crowd size 3500-5000approx sure g.p. same night had 8,000 people chinese new year 19/2/2010.the crowd numbers will be good this Friday but t/o will not alter that much due to Italian night don't no with it should be a separate night?

Offthebit · November 2016

Ridersonthestorm33 said:
JJ doesn't remember ( probably on holidays! ) but it was either 80s or early 90s they would allocate a horse a number ( as normal ) but not draw the barriers until about 5 or 10 mins before the event! Bookies and tote would bet but you had no idea where your horse was going to start from! Then there was a mad scramble to get on in 5 mins! It had some merit ( can't remember what! ) think they kept it going for a few months . Then it went back where it belonged - oblivion.

Remember those days well riders. I would back a few long shots pre barrier draw and pray like hell they would draw barrier 1. It never worked out for me but it was a hell of a lot fun.

Ridersonthestorm33 · November 2016

It's true about the Friday night - give you an example - week after week month after month year after year the Tab would get about 120k in the favourite numbers pool. Would close at 8.45 pm sharp. Then some wise guy said...how about we extend closing time to 10 or 11 on a Saturday. ( To get more in the pool ) so they changed it...end result pool has dropped about 15k every week ever since. Reason being punters had there money on the Friday to invest they punted up big on the fave numbers. Then with the extended time the punters thought they would leave it until Saturday only trouble was the money most times had gone! Fave nums closing Friday night 120k every week Fave nums closing late Saturday morning just barely gets to 105k sometimes lower. Not brain surgery - punters have money Friday night. They knew there favourite numbers had to be on. Saturday morning a different story. The extension of favourite numbers betting another 'dopey' decision.

Ridersonthestorm33 · November 2016

The Favourite Numbers was another one of those - for the benefit of punters. No more standing starts - for the benefit of punters. Next thing they will be saying five horse fields are.... for the benefit of punters.

Offthebit · November 2016

I have also heard that 1700m races are being culled by rwwa......for the benefit of turnover. Hence the fact that we had no sprint races in the inters heats and not long ago we had the mount eden 'pace' over 2100m rather than the mount eden mile.
So we have the stand starts slowly being phased out and now 1700m races being phased out to. We might as well just get some robot horses and robots to drive them from now on.

G-Mac · November 2016

I was about o ask about the turnover. Thanks @Matt

Noticed on Tuesday night the very embarrassing numbers in the win pools across all three totes as they were scoring up. My missus was excited as she knew I had a few investments and I muttered something along the lines of "the game is dead". She asked why. After the race I had to explain that this is some of the best racing you will see all week, regardless of code, and there is still more in the win pool at a Lismore greyhounds maiden.

I don't profess to have all the answers but one thing sticks in my head from when NSW had it and the move went to a club having it for a 3 year period. The major sponsor was Events NSW and they said unless you have it for at least 3 years we won't sponsor you because year 1 the market notices, year 2 they are reminded, year 3 they engage. If anyone is to make changes they need to think long term and be prepared to leave it there. We can all agree that the format is correct. The NSW experiment failed (although I won'r chastise anyone for trying something new) and the Vic experiment was rubbish (same thing). The next tender should stipulate the series must be run in this format with a $1m+ final and the club runs it for 5 years in order to get that market traction. As an aside, and this will never happen, I would love to see one round of heats run as a stand start. Because I love stands and Victoria would be ever so ****.

Markovina · December 2016

G-Mac said:
I was about o ask about the turnover. Thanks @Matt
Noticed on Tuesday night the very embarrassing numbers in the win pools across all three totes as they were scoring up. My missus was excited as she knew I had a few investments and I muttered something along the lines of "the game is dead". She asked why. After the race I had to explain that this is some of the best racing you will see all week, regardless of code, and there is still more in the win pool at a Lismore greyhounds maiden.

I don't profess to have all the answers but one thing sticks in my head from when NSW had it and the move went to a club having it for a 3 year period. The major sponsor was Events NSW and they said unless you have it for at least 3 years we won't sponsor you because year 1 the market notices, year 2 they are reminded, year 3 they engage. If anyone is to make changes they need to think long term and be prepared to leave it there. We can all agree that the format is correct. The NSW experiment failed (although I won'r chastise anyone for trying something new) and the Vic experiment was rubbish (same thing). The next tender should stipulate the series must be run in this format with a $1m+ final and the club runs it for 5 years in order to get that market traction. As an aside, and this will never happen, I would love to see one round of heats run as a stand start. Because I love stands and Victoria would be ever so ****.

But you are totally ignoring fixed odds mate - thats changed the landscape totally - anyone who is putting any sort of reasonable money on - would put it on fixed odds

Ive enjoyed the Inters so far - all this **** ive read that Trotting is dying - its just rubbish - look at the prizemoney Menangle - in fact all of NSW - same goes for Vic WA and even Quuensland has improved dramatically from 6-7 years ago

Im not saying everything is perfect - but Trotting people ( and im not bagging them ) if you have mixed with them - THEY LOVE TO WHINGE - they love their daily constant whinge - You could have a bloke who owned Village Kid Welcome Advice Robin Dundee all at the same time - and he would still find something wrong with the game !!

cisco · December 2016

I would not put Victoria's prizemoney in the same category as WA or NSW Markovina - that is why I will only own horses that race in WA.

PS I am a Victorian

cheers cisco

Chariotsonfire · December 2016

NSW stake money underpinned by the sale of Harold Park. Victoria greatlty assisted by an advantageous tax rate compared to WA. WA subsidised by the other codes and not performing to the required level in regards to wagering turnover.

Those in harness racing supporting the sale of the WA TAB will rue the day when distribution will be based on performance.

Admittedly fixed odds is the growth area for the TAB Markovina but that growth would be well short of the 30% downturn in pari-mutuel turnover on the Bunbury meeting.

The industry may not yet be in a terminal state but it is heading in that direction.

Ridersonthestorm33 · December 2016

Four consecutive races at Northam tonight...the favourites are $1.30, $1.10, $1.35 and $1.20. The other day at GP seven races and seven odds on favourites. Way too many shorties stifling betting.

Markovina · December 2016

Chariotsonfire said:
NSW stake money underpinned by the sale of Harold Park. Victoria greatlty assisted by an advantageous tax rate compared to WA. WA subsidised by the other codes and not performing to the required level in regards to wagering turnover.

Those in harness racing supporting the sale of the WA TAB will rue the day when distribution will be based on performance.

Admittedly fixed odds is the growth area for the TAB Markovina but that growth would be well short of the 30% downturn in pari-mutuel turnover on the Bunbury meeting.

The industry may not yet be in a terminal state but it is heading in that direction.

Your 2nd paragraph is the interesting one - and WATA and Radely will at that point have to lift their game

As for pool sizes - the NSW Derby heats only held 20k each in Win Pool for each heat - that says all the decent money is on fixed odds

Plus the time a race is run - you can have a Saturday night twilight trot meeting at say Exibition Park Canberra - absolute crabs - but its just after the gallops have finished - and the desperates are trying to get square - there will be 15k in the trifecta pool - unbelievable - but the race is on at the right time

If doomsday does come to the WA Trots -( after privatisation ) the Bonds and the Halls ( with his 4-5 owners ) they have got too much money invested - plus they love the game/industry - they will make sure the right changes happen - and the right people run it

G-Mac · December 2016

I'm not ignoring fixed odds at all, and I certainly understand that a lot of the investment is on fixed odds and corporates too. However, the Parimutuel win/place pools are the best measure of average punter engagement in the event. I spoke to some punters at my local on Wednesday. They didn't even know the Inters were on.

Fastmoney · December 2016

VillageKid said:

Ridersonthestorm33 said:
Just before Smokey galloped thought...Smokeys scratchy in his gear! Then the dippsy doodle. He was going to win...no doubt.

He definitely wasn't travelling smoothly in running I hope Smokey is ok.

Smokey The Bandit has come through surgery well, on 2 fractures in his pastern.

trooper · December 2016

G-Mac said:
I'm not ignoring fixed odds at all, and I certainly understand that a lot of the investment is on fixed odds and corporates too. However, the Parimutuel win/place pools are the best measure of average punter engagement in the event. I spoke to some punters at my local on Wednesday. They didn't even know the Inters were on.

trooper · December 2016

You spoke to a few blokes at the local and they didnt know it was on. Wow Typical comment from a eastern stater. I remember going for a beer mid race when it was at menagle. Least perth has some atmosphere.

Markovina · December 2016

Interesting re the Pool sizes - and which states are healthy and which aernt

1st Race at Menangle last night

Vic ( Super Tab) Win 10.5k 1st 4 1.9k

NSW Win 15.6k 1st 4 1.2k

They are deplorable figures - especially the 1st 4s

At GP on a Friday night most 1st 4s are around the 13k mark - bar the last couple of races

G'day Punter!

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